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Interviews
Dean & Holly Offret
Interviewer
You are suddenly confronted with the prospect of being uninsured. Explain your current situation.
Dean
Sure. Our process, probably the best way to summarize it is just in this year. I had finished my MBA studies and the company I was working with was sold. So I found a new job, very exciting, in a field that I wanted, and with people that I wanted and also working internationally which were all my goals. And it was just here locally down the street which was nice, close by. So the beginning of this year Everett, our son, was probably four months old or so. We're a young family just starting out and we felt this was a good position. Worked there a few months, started looking for new home. And about a month ago, in the first part of June the company I worked for had a large layoff. About 10% of the work force they let go. And I was one of those and they dissolved our international department. Holly, my wife, was a stay-at-home mom so that means we both were unemployed and there was no notice. It just happened on a Tuesday.
It was a shock, because before that, we were very happy and felt blessed and felt in a good position to be. We had the earnings, we had the insurance we had the savings for ourselves for a good six months. At work I had seen other consultants come in and out of the company but no rumblings or no anticipation of losing a job but I was called in on a Tuesday morning about 10:30 to go see the HR. I knew right when that happened my heart started to race and I knew exactly what was going to happen and there's nothing you can say about it. It's as though the company is done and I went into the HR office. And so I lost my job and I remember driving, I got back in, I got in the car and drove away and I had to collect my thoughts for a few minutes before I called my wife because I was, I was upset, unnerved surprised as well as distraught for our future because a lot of responsibility rests upon me, rests upon us as parents to take care of our son. And I feel like we have a social responsibility to be a member of this community to contribute to the community. And I always want to be contributing to the community. Maybe that's, in the big picture that's why I never also thought of public funds or public assistance in any way. I don't want to be labeled as withdrawing from the community when I think many; many others are more, quote, needy or qualify more. But now that we look at our family situation, it doesn't matter our education or where we've been, where we are today is that we need some assistance to build that bridge until we make more money where I can provide for our family.
Interviewer
Holly, how did you take the news? One minute everything is fine, and then you get the phone call. Talk to me about that a little bit.
Holly
So Dean called me one morning and said I'm coming home. And I said oh, what for? And he said because I don't have a job any more. And I thought, great. So, just with the stress of, you know, the man of the house, the bread winner losing the job, I know that it would be upsetting and disappointing for Dean. So I didn't ask any questions on the phone. And I said you can just tell me about it when you get home. And he got home and I could tell you know, he's a little bit stressed but; we were both stressed. And he said well what do you think about it? And I said well I'm stressed. I'm worried but. So then from there we just talked about this opportunity that Dean could have to start his own business that he had been thinking about. So we kind of thought about that for a few of days and ended up going for it.
Interviewer
We'll get into that in a second. When you first heard about it did you think about what you were going to do about healthcare? Or was that even on your mind?
Holly
No, it is on my mind. I remember before at Dean's previous job when we knew that they were going to be selling, the one thing that I constantly prayed for is that we would have insurance and have some type of income coming from somewhere. Like when Dean was looking for a job at that time. And we did. We always had insurance. Thank goodness through the transition with his, the job that he was recently let go. So yes, insurance is definitely something that we need and are aware of.
Interviewer
So when he lost his job it was on your mind again right?
Holly
Absolutely.
Dean
Well I had transitioned from a job in December. I had negotiated that my previous employer, I'm sorry my to-be employer pay the COBRA (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act) because of the required waiting period because I knew Cobra would be far too expensive for us. So that was part of the, of the negotiation and contract which was great. But then in June when I was laid off, or let go again, by law they say, 'we'll send you all the paperwork for COBRA.' Which to me is dollar signs I think, I don't want to have to pay COBRA because it's almost two or three time as I was paying normally. So we knew COBRA was an option. Then we also started calling around even probably the day I came back, the day I came home early, we started calling around for independent insurance that day as well. Because not only is it very nice but it's a luxury to say, 'I'm not feeling well today or our sons not feeling well.' Good, let's take him to the doctor and not worry about it. So, we feel like it's a luxury that we no longer have.
Interviewer
You guys were used to it. Here you are without it. What took you from looking at individual plans to CHIP (Children’s Health Insurance Plan) or Medicaid?
Holly
The option I thought of was just the individual insurance plans. Because I've had an individual insurance plan before. Because the company I worked for, it was actually higher than the plan that I could get on my own. So I looked up that agent again and called him and I was just thinking, you know, this is our option. We'll just have to make sure; you know that we sell one of our cars to have insurance. That's honestly the conversations that I've had with Dean. To make things work you have to shift, you know the budget and expenses around so.
Interviewer
What brings you to Medicaid and CHIP?
Dean
We started looking at Medicaid and CHIP because we, it was referred to us by a friend. So we thought we would get online and do some research about it. Honestly I had never thought about CHIP or Medicaid. Because I feel like it's my responsibility to find an insurance plan and pay for it. I feel it's a public program that I don't know a lot about it. It's a public program that probably others are taking advantage of instead of someone who's had stable insurance for a long time or had a stable job for a long time. And honestly, I have a Master's degree; I have a good education in business and marketing. And it's a little bit embarrassing to not have a good job, a little bit embarrassing to be thinking about Medicaid and CHIP. I've always thought those are programs for, for single mothers or young couple's just getting married or something else. Not someone in my shoes at all.
Interviewer
You have insurance until Saturday. What are your concerns about that?
Holly
I guess my concerns are not for a catastrophic emergency to happen; it's more just day to day. Because I know the doctor said, you know, if Everett is not feeling better by Monday bring him back in. So I asked the receptionist on the way out, you know, if I just come in, how much is it. $65. And then, so just that happening. Because I like the luxury of being able to take him in if something happens. Or dental work. We've both had dental work that we've been having done as well. And so I called and both got us in before the end of the month to make sure that's done. But you know, if something else happens now in the mean time, we're not going to have that and we're going to have to pay out of pocket. So, just the luxury of I guess preventative care is a concern. And if something catastrophic happens, you know where we're going to need to go to the emergency, I just think I, we'll have to be on some bill plan. Some payment plan to make it work.
Interviewer
You know people who are working might think, 65 bucks, that's not that much. With the cost of starting a new business, explain what $65 means when you don't have an income.
Dean
We're starting a new business that we've taken a lot of our savings and invested in some inventory. And the 65 dollars to me for an office visit is something that we just have to find somewhere. And in my mind it's, it's uh, we're living kind of week to week. I know how much I have to sell in a week for my new business. And we'll have to dig in our savings or find for that office visit. In my mind, I think that we'll do whatever we have to do for the office visit. Go on one or two less dates together and we're eating more at home. I don't know if that interests you, we eat more meals at home. We make more meals at home; we plan more meals at home. We're driving a little less and we haven't planned any vacations this year because we know we won't have any of that kind of money coming in. So we are trying to be frugal as we can. And that means week to week that I might use a little less milk on my cereal to tell you the truth. And we're trying to make leftovers last a little longer. But I am starting a new job so I'm trying to save the day time for my new job, my new venture, my new business. And I just stopped a young lady out behind our apartment building. I know she's a waitress at a restaurant and I'm looking at working either a later shift after 5 PM, serving at a restaurant or actually, two days ago I also applied at a local bakery. I know they open at 4:00 in the morning, that would be great if I could work at 4:00 in the morning until 9 or 10. What I'm trying to tell you is we're trying to squeeze everything we can, every dollar we can and then working an extra, work extra hours that we can. It is a luxury to have Holly stay at home with Everett as a housewife. We want to keep that, preserve that as much as we can.
Interviewer
Explain the process of finding private health plans. Are the monthly costs feasible?
Dean
So looking into the individual plans, I've talked with two different agents. And received different quotes from Altius, Selecthealth, and Blue Cross Blue Shield. And for the three of us and what we want to be covered for it would be $330 a month and just for Everett it's probably going to be around $65. And what I'm looking at us to be covered is to have a co-payment and then a $500 deductible, no more than a $500 deductible and that's basically it. So for Everett to be covered it would be around $68 a month. But there are so many details that I don't know that I've looked up on the internet and I talked to another agent recently. That was really helpful because a lot of the way the plans work and the way that it's covered, the $500 deductible on some plans will allow you, you have to use your deductible before you can even use the co-payment of the $15. Some allow you to use that up front and the deductible is just for you know things that take place, the doctor's office. So there's lots of details I'm unaware of as I even look at the quotes. But do I think that the individual plans are realistic for us? I think that's just something that we are going to make happen for Everett if we don't get qualified for CHIP.
Interviewer
Balancing that with the new business, is it feasible to pay for all of you?
Dean
No, it's not feasible to pay $300 or pay for private insurance for all 3 of us. As a new business owner, a lot of my money is going into advertising and trying to get the correct inventory. And I'm making more phone calls now so that, those bills go up and general business expenses. So, it's an irresponsible risk to not have insurance. And we consciously are making the decision to take the risk as adults for us to not cover ourselves and to cover our little boy.
Interviewer
Why didn't the government programs cross your mind in the beginning?
Dean
It didn't cross, public assistance and public programs didn't cross my mind because we're a married couple who are both educated and have had a comfortable lifestyle and comfortable surroundings and even my circle of friends, no one is on public assistance, no one talks about public assistance, except for once in a while because of an election discussion, election topic. But it seems so far removed from who I am and where I am in my life and my personal expectations, I honestly didn't think that I would qualify or I could qualify and I don't know that many details about it. But again, not to be obtuse, but it seems like a program for single mothers or someone on skid row or someone with little or no housing. That's a very perhaps immature outlook of it but that's what I've always attributed public assistance to - to that association.
Holly
And I know that I wasn't aware of Medicare or CHIP or even thought of it being an option for us, because I think of we're both capable to work and that we need to provide insurance and the opportunity for insurance ourselves. So, like Dean just said, I think that those programs are for someone that's not capable or for someone that's already working two part-time jobs and they're not able to get the insurance from that.
Interviewer
Would you say there is a stigma associated with those programs?
Holly
Absolutely, I think so.
Interviewer
Absolutely there's a stigma...
Holly
Absolutely there’s stigma with Medicare or CHIP, with any state programs.
Dean
I don't know if there is a, I don't know if there is a stigma associated with those programs. I think there is a limitation of understanding who they are for. Also I believe there is a fund of money that's limited. And if I think of someone who is going to qualify for those funds, it should be someone at the YWCA who perhaps left an abuse spouse, has two or three children, trying to work 2 or 3 jobs and trying to make it in this world. I like what Holly said about being capable. I think if we're capable and should be finding healthcare somewhere else, perhaps I might be taking it from somebody else, taking public assistance from someone as well. Because it is a very, very limited supply I think and it's always a hot political issue and when you see something on a bus billboard about supporting public funds, I always think of myself as, I'm happy to pay taxes because someone else is going to benefit from it because they are in a different income bracket, different educational bracket and a completely different lifestyle than what I'm used to. And now overnight, I've found myself without the money to pay for healthcare, but again I'm, my, my first thought was, I'll sacrifice and not have any healthcare. So the association isn't there at all for public assistance of any type.
Interviewer
Now that you've looked at it a little bit, are you glad they are there?
Holly
I'm absolutely glad that Medicaid and CHIP and there's public assistance there for health insurance. But I'm waiting right now to see if I'll, we'll even be covered for Medicaid for example and for some reason I'm thinking that we won't be covered but I guess we'll see.
Interviewer
What about you, Dean? Are you glad they are there?
Dean
I feel a little relieved that these plans are out there for us, options are for us. I'm glad our friend told us about it because we would be probably digging in every couch cover trying to find every last funds that we could. I think we are waiting for a July 2nd enrollment period to find out more. We've talked a little bit about it and we're going to do some more research on it. But it does feel like a little bit like a safety for me. And something good to fall back on because if, and you never know, if something catastrophic were to happen we would be really buried for years to come. And that's a big risk. And I also believe that we are planning on, I don't know if there is a time limit on this kind of public assistance, but we are planning on using it as a bridge until we earn more for our future and earn for our family. I do feel a lot of responsibility to, if we are taking advantage of that program at this time, to be on the other side and paying back into the program as quickly as we can as well.
Holly
I want to add, I know one reason why we haven't considered Medicare or any of state assistance or are even aware that it's out there, because Dean and I make sure that we live our lives to be independent, to plan for the future, to be, to take care of ourselves. So it's not even a thought of, you know, what, what does the state have to offer us. Because we've previously made all of our decisions so that we can live independently.
Interviewer
But then something changed. What changed?
Holly
Right. It changed that Dean was laid off and we starting our own business now. And finances change because of starting our own business. And we didn't plan for that to happen. So you know, thank goodness the options are there and we'll take advantage of them and - you know I think that it's even hard to understand what is available there for us. And where to we need to be financially to be qualified for it. You know when I look up on the internet - you know, CHIP or Medicare, it's not clearly stated there. I am still unaware why or when, how long it will take and to know, you know, where do we need to be to be qualified for it. It's not clear.
Dean
I think, too, it's unclear in the fact the we've spent probably 3-4 hours looking and trying to read through the website and we're still after you leave today, we'll probably resume this weekend again, trying to research more and trying to find the right telephone number to call or email to submit or maybe the office to go visit.
Holly
We've spent 3 or 4 hours researching insurance as a whole. Talking to agents, looking at the websites, talking with a friend that's referred us to the, you know, state programs and as well as individual plans all together.
Interviewer
In searching for insurance and government assistance, what has been your experience?
Holly
I guess my experience is I almost, there's not enough information or someone able to explain Medicaid and CHIP to me. So I haven't taken the extensive time on my part to go down to an office or to make a call to try to get any answers I have or to get any questions I have answered. And when it comes to individual plans, I can get questions answered and I have an agent that will work for me, explain everything to me, say what do you want. But since the expense of having the individual plan isn't there for us and I don't have all the questions answered if we're going to qualify or not, even though I've filled out applications for Medicaid and CHIP or I will fill out an application for CHIP once the open enrollment is available. So I almost feel like I am at a dead end. I don't have very many options. I mean because it's, it's either a catastrophic individual plan where I have to pay for every doctor visit or I can either get a co-pay to, you know, take my son Everett to the doctor's and it's going to be a higher monthly rate that we can't afford. So, and so, and since it's just not there, it's really not a conversation piece because I already know our funds aren't going to be there to pay for $330, so hopefully CHIP will work out.
Everett, our ten month old son, for really the past 3 weeks he's been congested. And I knew that our insurance was ending at the end of June. And so right when it started, like the day he had symptoms, I took him into the doctor's, the doctor couldn't find anything wrong. So 3 weeks went on and I thought I don't want to take him back in because I don't want to be told it's just a virus and leave. But Everett's congestion continued and he had a hard time sleeping and he wasn't acting like himself so I thought, I'm going to go in even though I had already kind of taken him in at the beginning of these symptoms but since our insurance was ending, you know, I had nothing to loose to go in and make sure everything is OK and what can be done. But I'm glad I went in because Everett is congested and the doctor said it isn't virus, it is an infection so he does need to be treated with an antibiotic because this obviously isn't going away since he had had symptoms for three weeks. So I was really glad that I went in and to know, and the doctor said if the symptoms don't clear up, make sure you bring him back by Monday. And so as I leave the doctor's office, I asked the receptionist so, you know, I'm not going to have insurance as of June 30th so how much is it if I just bring Everett in? And she said $65, so I thought, well, we may be back because, you know, I'm obviously going to take Everett back in if he still has symptoms. So it is going to add up to go back in and see the doctors for $65 just to visit him. But the one thing that the pediatrician's office did offer. And the doctor told me and the receptionist made sure to tell me as well, is they will offer any vaccinations for Everett because his year appointment will be coming up, for just $7.50 a vaccination. It's the same I guess, that the health department will offer so I thought that's nice to know and be aware of.
Interviewer
Is this something that you ever thought you would have to worry about for your son?
Holly
No, I didn't think health insurance was something that I would have to worry about not having. Because I knew that Dean was employed, that Dean has went to school, he has a degree to work and he's always taken pride in making sure that he has a good job and is planning for our future. As well as, you know, I'm open to working as well, if we need to for our family, but my choice is to stay at home and be with Everett and raise Everett and be there for his every step. So, it hasn't been a concern that that's something that I'm going to need to be aware of what's available out there for state funds. And so, no, I didn't think I would come to this place where we're not sure what we're going to do of, you know, individual plan or state plan or how we're going to be covered for insurance as of Monday.
Interviewer
Is it hitting home to you that being uninsured is on the doorstep?
Dean
About 3 or 4 days away, also, we weren't at all prepared, didn't think about this at all because, as Holly said, we've always wanted to provide for ourselves, take care of ourselves, and hopefully anticipate any job loss or job changes but, it doesn't happen. And also, back to the clock ticking if you will, I do recall Holly making dental appointments so we could get in and get that taken care of so we can get that behind us. As I feel like we are approaching the edge of a cliff. So as we approach the edge of this massive cliff, hope we don't fall off and we've taken, tried to take care of, get all this equipment that we could or get taken care of all we could, before our time runs out. And even though we are standing at the cliff, hopefully we're building a bridge for the future and we're going to have something for us in the future.
Interviewer
What about with Everett too, do you feel as a mom that suddenly you're faced with, I love that notion of the cliff, I mean it really is. Do you feel that way as a mom with Everett about suddenly come Monday, you know, you're uninsured.
Holly
I know I do. And I do feel like, as of Monday, we're not going to be insured. We are on the edge of the cliff, up until this point and it also makes me feel not responsible as a parent, not to have insurance for my child. So, it's, it's a worry, it's a stress. It's almost like a personal failure as well because it something that should be taken care of and that I always planned on having insurance for Everett. But I do know that if I need to take him to the doctor's that I will and we'll pay for the $65 office visit. Or whatever needs to be done, he will be taken care of and we'll go to the measures that are needed.
Interviewer
I'll be curious to see if you qualify for CHIP. Is there anything that either one of you wants to add?
Dean
I'll just add that about the feeling of a failure. I was always raised to be a responsible adult and I never ever imagined I would be without insurance, taking care of our family. I even think that I drive a little more carefully, believe it or not. I think I drive a little bit slower, even if only by a margin, to avoid an accident. Cause there could be a large domino effect. And I do feel like if anything were to happen we'd be probably taking some items to the pawn shop; do whatever we have to do to get it taken care of, do whatever we have to do to get an office visit for our son. And I feel like I'm healthy, I'm taking a risk. But I feel like as a 35 year old with a good education and good skills, I need to be providing that without any gaps or any lag. And it's, it's a little embarrassing and honestly, we haven't talked about it that much between us because it's a painful subject and we kind of are hoping something might happen but nothing is going to happen. Nothing good is going to happen, no magic is going to happen. So we've had two or three good conversations about it and there's still probably some questions unanswered but obviously we going to have a final discussion before anything runs out. But again, it's a sore spot, a sore subject and we are focusing a lot of effort on opening the business and making it happen. But yeah, I'm relieved that Everett is being taken care of now and hopefully, in my mind, I foresee something happening within the next 3 or 4 months, something better for us. So hopefully we have a safe summer.
Interviewer
Holly, any last thoughts?
Holly
Other than just with Dean starting this new business, that I'm thinking it's something temporary that we aren't going to have insurance for 3 or 4 months. So, it's something temporary that we need to hopefully get on Medicaid or CHIP. But we have waited long enough that I spoke to an agent this morning and we can't even, we've waited so long now we can't even be qualified for July. So we have to do it by the 25th of each month, we need to have an application and the check in to even be enrolled for the following month. So you can't waste any time or you're not insured.
