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Interviews
Gale and Gay Peckham
Interviewer
Before you went to the clinic you did try to go to some doctors offices. Tell me about that.
Gale Peckham
Well there was one up there on 62 and Redwood and he said that he didn't take insurance. You just went in there and for 40 dollars I think it was to go in and see him and that. And he told me, he said, "Well I've got to have this and I've got to have that" and he said, "So there's another 50 dollars" and I said, "Well, okay I don't really have it." But I do so I gave it to him and they did this and he said, "Now I need this other test and it's 150 dollars" and I said "I haven't got 150 dollars". I said "I can't come up with 150 dollars" and he said "well I'll tell you what to do - run over to Jordan Valley Hospital and they'll bill you. And I said, "I just got done telling you that I can't afford it and what's the hospital going to charge me?" "Oh probably 400 dollars" and I go "forget it, I ain't doing it". I said "I can't, I ain’t got no way of paying it". He said, "Let them worry about it".
Interviewer
So before the clinic you tried seeing doctors?
Gale Peckham
Yeah I tried seeing doctors and I'd get turned away without any insurance, it was like, "Go away, you haven't got any insurance and we can't see you" and that. I had one tell me to come back and they had an opening in five months. Okay, you know. "Do you want us to make that appointment in five months?" "Well I need it now not in five months. Five months ain’t going to do me any good." "Well I don't know what to tell you, that's the first opening we've got." And it was a joke and then there was that one on 62 I seen and they didn't make appointments, you just walked in. It was just a walk in and that. So I went in there and it was supposed to cost me 40 dollars and it was about 100 dollars when I walked out of there and I think I had about 105 in my pocket that day just in case it was a little extra. Then he wanted me to go to this other one and it was 150 and I couldn't do that because you had to pay the money up front before they do the test. "Well I can see your point but I'm telling you I don't have that kind of money, I can't do it". "Well you need it, go to the hospital". "I'm not going to the hospital - it will cost me 400 dollars - I can't afford 150 and you want to send me over there where it will cost me 400 dollars? I don't think so". And it was a joke. It was a real joke. Then he writes me out a prescription for my insulin for three months instead of a year - that way I had to go back and see him and pay more money. And I'm thinking, "This is a joke"!
Interviewer
Does it make you angry that because you don't have insurance you have to go to the ER and it ends up costing you more money? Tell me about that.
Gale Peckham
Well that irritates me you know, you're not doing good, you haven't got nothing and they're telling you go away, you haven't got no money and we're not working for nothing. Well I don't blame you for not wanting to work for nothing but can you make arrangements? Well the arrangement we got was pay up front or don't see us. I've been to a doctor’s office and made an appointment and made arrangement and they told me if I didn't have the money in full right then to go away and they turned me away. After I made it all the way down there and everything and you sit in the waiting room for 1/2 an hour and then they call you up and tell you that and you know you just want to throw your hands in the air and scream at them and throw a fit, but downtown jail doesn't sound too good today. So you know - you better just walk out because I do have a nasty temper, I mean when I come unglued, I'm rotten. I don't care and I'll politely tell you what I think and I don't care if it hurts people’s feelings and I don't care who's standing there and I'll just go off and I don't care.
Interviewer
It sounds like this was frustrating enough for you that you were in a position to do that. How frustrating was that?
Gay Peckham
Well when they turn you away it's embarrassing and humiliating and you wonder where you're going to turn, wonder where you're going to turn. You give up hope and you think it’s not going to do any good to keep looking. You know everybody's going to have the same story. You know you don't have the money up front; you don't have the insurance to cover it. It's frustrating. Very frustrating. It makes you want to give up. I'm just glad that we found the Molina Clinic. It's been a lifesaver for us. It's helped us out more than you could ever know. More than you could know.
Gale Peckham
But we've sold stuff different times to go see a doctor. So we'd have the money to go see them and that stuff, you know, it's stuff that you really didn't want to get rid of but you didn't have no choice. It was the only thing you knew that somebody you knew would buy. And you know it upsets you, to lose something you know and then you pay this doctor the money and you're still about in the place you was before because you still ain’t got no money and they still don't want to see you.
Gay Peckham
Doctors on the most part won’t make arrangements with you to make payments. If you don't have insurance and you don't have the money up front they show you the door. And that's not right! Doctor's are supposed to be there for you. They're supposed to help you out when you're sick and when you need their help. It's like all they're worried about is padding their pocket and people that don't have it to give are the ones that suffer and it's like they don't care and they're supposed to care. It's what they went to school for to take care of the people in need and the only need they have is greenbacks. If you don't have it they don't want to see you. So...it's not right, it's not right at all because there's so many people. We were in the same situation that if you don't have the money you do without. You try to make yourself well and sometimes it doesn't work.
Interviewer
Tell me about that not having the money, did you ever have to sit there and go - okay do I pay the mortgage or do I buy my medicine?
Gay Peckham
Yeah, we've been in that boat and there have been times Gale's gone without medication because the house payment had to be made. We can't live in the vehicle, you know. I mean you could maybe for a little while but you go without paying your mortgage to go to the doctor, well that mortgage payment is only going to pay for one or two visits so what's it worth? If it even pays that, depending on what kind of treatment the doctor wants to give you. So you lose a month on your house payment to go to the doctor once or twice then the money's not there and they're still going to show you the door and then you're a month behind on your house payment. It's easier just to make the house payment and hope for the best as far as the doctor goes. At least that way you've got a roof over your head.
Interviewer
You've been in both boats, because you've had insurance. Explain that to me what the difference is for you between having insurance and not having insurance.
Gay Peckham
Having insurance is not having to worry. All you've got is the co-pay generally. For 25 bucks you go to the doctor. If you've got insurance any doctor will take you. If you're a new patient sometimes it takes awhile to get in but generally the doctor will take you if you've got a job where he can see you've got a regular income and the insurance to back you up. When you lose your insurance, they don't want to see you because generally, not all the time, but generally if you don't have insurance you don't usually have a very big income. Because if you had a big income you could pay for the insurance. If you don't have insurance....we've been shown the door and it's not nice. It's not nice!
Interviewer
I imagine you're not the only ones in this boat?
Gay Peckham
I know probably several other people that don't have insurance. In fact I know I know more people that don't have insurance because we've got several friends that are saying, "I need to go to the doctor, but I don't have insurance" and Gale says, "Well if you don't have insurance, I know where you can go to the doctor. It might take you awhile to get in but they're going to get you in". So we tell them about the clinic that we go to and it's really for them to know that there's someplace that will help them also and it's a stress saver. It's a stress saver because you know there's somebody there that cares. And they care! They're always there with a smile on their faces; you know, hey, how are you? What can we do for you today? and there have been times when we've gotten an arm around the shoulder and a hug when they can see that we're really having a bad day. And that's nice! You don't get that at a regular doctor’s office no matter how many years you've been a patient with that particular doctor. All they're worried about is the money on the books. In fact as Gale was telling you about the one doctor we were going to see for several years, we ended up losing insurance before they got it billed and I thought, well, the insurance will catch it, then we had to go back to the doctor. We walked in the door and they said you’ve got 375 dollars to pay before we'll see you. Well what are you talking about? The insurance should have paid that. They didn't pay it; you've got to pay it up front before you can walk through that door to see the doctor. Ah, I don't have the money, I've got an appointment can you work with me? Sorry, we don't work payments. You don't have it, we don't see you. Okay, you have to turn around and walk out the door even with that appointment. We didn't have the money to catch up the books for them we didn't see the doctor. We had been seeing that doctor for over 5 years. They don't care.
Interviewer
But you did find the Maliheh Clinic. Gale, how did you even hear about it or find it?
Gale Peckham
I seen it on TV if you didn't have insurance they didn't care, they had doctors that would see you and call 211 and that's where I seen it on one of the TV stations, I don't know which one it was on but I told my wife about it and two or three weeks later I finally decided to call them and that because I went up to that one up there in Salt Lake up by Pioneer Park at the dentist and they told me I made too much and they wouldn't see me after standing in line for an hour and a half. I got up there and they said, "You make too much money, go away." Okay.
Interviewer
Was it hard for you to go to the Maliheh Clinic?
Gale Peckham
Yeah it was, it was really hard. The first time I went there I was on edge. You know because I figured I'd go through the door, get up there fill out the paperwork and they'd look at it and come and tell me well, you make too much and we can't see you - you've got too much. Go away. And that's what I was really expecting and when they didn't do that, it blew me away. I mean it totally blew me away! I was shocked! I told my wife there's a problem here, they were nice, we didn't get turned away and he gave me a prescription and sent me over to Costco to pick up my insulin and I didn't have to pay for it because it was already paid for. It surprised me! I didn't know what to think. I was flabbergasted when I walked out of there. I just didn't know what to think and that. I was in total shock because for me to go ask somebody for help, well it don't happen. It's very hard for me to go and ask somebody to give me a hand.
Interviewer
The clinic has been helping the both of you out and how much of a help is it to have them pay for the medication?
Gay Peckham
Oh it's really a Godsend! Without them paying for the medication we wouldn't be able to be on the medications that we're on. After we started going to the clinic they started helping Gale out with his test strips and his insulin and they found out his cholesterol (well both of us) was way sky high so they put both of us on cholesterol medication. They helped him with tranquilizers to keep him calmed down and help him sleep because - well actually neither of us sleep at night very well. But he's on a sleeping aid, he has high blood pressure, he uses an inhaler (we both do) but he uses Speriva, which is very expensive. Without their help there's no way. There's no way we would be able to afford it. We had trouble affording his insulin and his test strips so I can't imagine not having them now since we've had them and having the help that we've been having from them because we didn't realize he had as many medical problems as he has. We didn't know what he had and it's made a big difference. It's made a big difference and they're always there for you if you need something.
Interviewer
How has it made a difference?
Gale Peckham
Well we've been able to afford a little bit of extra food so we can eat and that.
Interviewer
Do you feel better?
Gale Peckham
Well yeah. I do feel a whole lot better now than when I did before I was really seeing the doctor and stuff like that and you know. I have a little bit of extra that we can go out and get us a hamburger every once in a while instead of well, eating the same old stuff we've been eating because we ain’t got nothing else - like to go get a hamburger but maybe someday.
Interviewer
So before you found the clinic, did you apply for Medicaid? Have you looked to the state for help?
Gale Peckham
I looked into it and they told me that because I wasn't 62 that it would cost me 450 dollars a month and that was just for me. That's not counting her, that's just for me. Well I can't afford to give somebody 450 dollars a month for insurance! I haven't got it every month, you know? There's a third of my wages every month going to insurance and that won’t pay everything. I've still got my medication and I've still got the co-pay and I've still got what they don't pay and I can't come up with that kind of money.
Interviewer
There have been times when you've even not had money for your test strips?
Gale Peckham
Yes, there's been times that I haven't checked myself because I didn't have no money to buy test strips and I knew I only had a couple left and I knew I had a week to go before payday and so I wouldn't check it.
Interviewer
What was that like?
Gale Peckham
It was terrible, you know wondering what you was and if you should eat or if you ate too much what your sugars are and you know, it's scary, knowing that you've got a major problem and you don't want to have an ambulance come pick you up in the morning. So you just hope for the best. Eat a little extra before you go to bed so maybe you'll wake up in the morning and you won’t be too low. And basically that's what I do and that. Then doctors get on me and say I shouldn't do that and you know, what do you do? You ain’t got no choice. So it's hard and that.
Interviewer
It seems really hard, I mean it's true - do you pay your mortgage or buy you medicine? You've had a point years ago where your diabetes was so bad that you had to be rushed to the ER.
Gale Peckham
Oh yeah, quite a few times they've had the paramedics come out here and revive me and that and haul me to the hospital and that. Then I had a doctor that wouldn't let them transport me because basically there was nothing they could do for me at the hospital that they couldn't do for me here. So that would aggravate the paramedics and the ambulance drivers because they couldn't transport me because the doctors wouldn't allow it. It was like he said they've done everything, you're getting something to eat, is going to bring your sugars up and he said that's all they're going to do for you at the hospital...no I won’t let them transport you - come and see me.
Gay Peckham
Yeah they hooked him up to an IV here at the house and that would save us on having to pay a hospital bill. So they'd hook him up to the IV and let it run it's cycle and bring him back to where he needed to be and that would save us a lot. And that was when we had insurance. So that was really nice that the doctor was looking out for us in that way.
Interviewer
How scary was it for you to know that he wasn't watching his sugar and knowing that he could have to go to the hospital?
Gay Peckham
It was scary. It was really scary. With a diabetic it depends on your blood sugar levels for mood swings. You could tell...well you can’t always tell but it's more obvious, you know grumpiness or not knowing what's going on and stuff depending on if the sugar levels are too high or too low. It was a guessing game on the most part. Sometimes you'd guess that the sugar levels were low by the way that he was acting and get him something to eat and find out that night that his sugar levels were sky high because you were trying to second guess but you didn't have the test strips to check as often as what was needed. But now the clinic has helped us out and he can check like he's supposed to more than once a day. Sometimes not even once a day. Now he checks on the average four times a day - on the average. Sometimes more often but generally it always hits at four times a day he checks to see where his blood sugars are and boy the stress level on that part's really gone down because you don't have to wonder on the most part if his sugars are too low and if he's going to be in trouble or if they're going sky high.
Interviewer
You were telling me about how you had actually called the state at one point trying to get some help. Tell me about that.
Gay Peckham
We had called trying to get medical assistance through the state and they kept on telling us that we make too much money - 200 dollars too much and the reason why it was 200 dollars? Well if it was only Gale’s Social Security that we were getting, we would qualify, but he gets a small pension and they said with that pension it disqualifies us. I mean, it's a small pension - real small. Anyway I ended up going to the extreme of calling the Governor’s office and asking him isn’t' there any possible way? All we want is some help with medical and she said, well let’s see - do you own your vehicles? - I said yes. Are they worth over 3,000 dollars apiece? Yes, you've got to sell them I said, Excuse me? You're going to have to sell them. Do you own any property? And I said what do you consider property? I have my burial plots, you can't have those. She said what about life insurance? I said, yes we have life insurance. Well you've got to quit paying your life insurance and you've got to get rid of your burial plots, you've got to sell your truck that’s worth over 3,000 dollars - buy something that's less expensive and prove where the money went. Then your best bet is to make all kinds of doctors’ appointments, get checked for everything under the sun that could be wrong - ring up 10,000 in one month and then maybe we'll think about helping you. I said let me get this straight, I sell my truck - a reliable truck, no problems to speak of, buy an old junker we're going to have to work on every other month to keep it running. She said "yeah". And I said, then I quit paying my life insurance, get rid of my burial plots - so if one of us dies where does that leave me - are you going to buy us? No, that's not our problem. I said okay, that makes a lot of sense. And if I ring up 10,000 dollars worth of medical bills and you decide not to pay them or help me? She said, I guess you've got a problem. It doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Thank you very much; I think I'll do with what I'm doing right now. That's not a benefit to me at all. That's making the situation worse. I was in tears by the time I got off the phone with that lady. I thought, I've been paying taxes all these years and figured when we needed their help they'd be there to help us. I'm sorry, you've got too much to your name - it doesn't matter if you've been working 30 something years to get the things that you've got - you've got too much We won’t help you and we can't help you, there’s other people that need the help worse. Okay - thank you very much! Click. I cried and cried and cried over that. It's not right. It's not right. You've never asked for their help and then when you need it they tell you no, I'm sorry, you've got too much. It doesn't matter how many years you've worked or how much you've invested on things - get rid of them and then maybe we'll think about it - and that maybe is all capital letters. We haven't got a whole lot.
Gale Peckham
We've got a few things but nothing really fancy. I don't got no snowmobiles, and I ain’t got no boats and stuff you know that would be fun. I ain’t got any of that stuff you know? I could see it if I had that kind of stuff but I don't!
Gay Peckham
They even want me to give up my ground to put my box in when I die. Just so they could help me and it's not worth it. I shouldn't have to. I shouldn't have to.
Gale Peckham
We fought too hard to pay them things off and that so we'd have them when we needed them.
Interviewer
Does it seem really unfair to you when the both of you have worked so hard all your lives?
Gay Peckham
It's really unfair, really unfair.
Gale Peckham
But life's never been fair. You know you stop and look at it - life's not fair, you know stuff happens and goes on and that - it's not fair and that.
Interviewer
You've worked all your life right? Tell me what you used to do or what you've done.
Gay Peckham
I'm an electrician and I've done that for 15 years. I've done a variety of different things. Years ago when our kids were little I worked in a foundry doing that kind of work. I had my own cleaning business, just a variety of different things. Hard working jobs.
Interviewer
How about you, Gay?
Gay Peckham
Well I worked construction doing foundations for a while, and then I went into the dairy business and that and worked for Safeway and then they sold out and went to these other companies and that. But yeah I spent 21 years at dairies, working in the dairy field.
Interviewer
Do you feel that when you had insurance did you ever think that there would be a time like now where you wouldn't have health insurance?
Gale Peckham
No, I never - you never thing about it, you know that you'll run out of insurance and you won’t have nowhere, you know that's the last thing you ever worry about that until you find out it's gone and nobody will see you and you're like "oh." But we never worried about it; you know we're working, having insurance and stuff like that. But it's not until you lose it and find out when you can't go see anybody is when you start going "oh". You know because you never think about it when you have it. I know there's a lot of people out there that don't think of that because they have insurance but when it runs out and they haven't got it and then they see what's going on, it's a reality check - like I can't believe this, you know? I've always been told that hospitals will see you; they have to see you if you’re sick and all that stuff, do something for you. I found out that's not right either, they just send you down the road and tell you well we're too busy, we can't see you, goodbye.
Interviewer
How about you Gay? Did you ever think about it before?
Gay Peckham
It was the last thing that ever entered my mind. I always assumed that we'd have insurance and if we didn't, well it's going to cost a couple of extra dollars. I never imagined what we'd go through without having insurance, being turned away and being told sorry don't know what to tell you. You would never imagine that that would happen but there's so many people like us that are probably going through the same thing and it's heartbreaking not just for us but for those other people because there's people with young kids. Those babies need to be seen by the doctor and when they're sick and you don't have somewhere to go, what are you going to do? You know? How do you tell a baby that's crying because of a sore throat or ear infection or something like that baby I'm sorry I don't have the money to take you to the doctor? What am I going to do? It's not right, it's not fair. I couldn't imagine having little people in the house again and not having the insurance to be able to take them to the doctor. Because it's just something that I never thought about when my kids were young and I can't imagine what the people with little people go through when they don't have the insurance and not the money to back them up. I'm glad I'm not in their shoes - I am in their shoes but at least we don't have the little people to worry about, we just have us to worry about and with us, if we had to we could set it aside. And we have done many times.
Gale Peckham
You should go to the doctor but you can't afford it and you ain’t got no money, so well...you don't go. You do what you have to and hope you get better and that. Go in and take another nap and hope you feel better and hypnotize yourself to make you feel better and when you wake up...well I wasn't hurting when I hypnotized myself, I forgot about that. That's what I really like about hypnotizing myself because you know I can just go lay down and think of something else and forget about it. It doesn't really bother me until I come back out of it and then you know it's still there but hey - I'm may have went an hour, two hours you know with relief. Like I say, Rehab with Walls, I'm glad they taught that to me. That was the neatest thing they ever taught me and I loved that because it works! I was hesitant when they first told me about it, and I was like that ain’t going to work but it does work. Mind over matter.
Interviewer
If only we could do that with everything. Do you think in America that it's right that people go without healthcare?
Gay Peckham
No I don't! The thing that really irritates me, I don't know if I should say this, we go and we have problems with these other countries - we blow them up, kill their people, our people get killed, then we go back behind and rebuild their countries for them? People are going without and they're going and fixing the damage we caused. I'm sorry. What comes first? You go and you hurt them and you try to make it better but what about our people here? We need to fix something. Something's just not right. It's just not right; they're not looking out for us like they should be. When I say "us" I mean coast to coast, there's too many of us that need the help. They're worried about fixing things overseas that we broke. Then why are we breaking them in the first place? Why are we building stadiums for games when how many of us are actually going to be able to go to those games? Why aren't they putting that money towards helping our people? Getting them to the doctor? Paying for medical care? The welfare system isn't working because there's too many people that they're saying don't qualify. They should be helping all of us that need to have doctors that need to have medication. We're lucky the Molina Clinic has helped us. Look how many people don't get that help because they don't know. We went for quite awhile without being able to help and it took a lot for us to go because we don't go ask for help and I know there's got to be more than just us. You know there's a lot of people that have a hard time asking for help but when you need it you need it and when it's not there you continue to do without. But it should be there, it should be being paid for. Our higher ups should be paying for us people that don't have it. I mean, we've been there to pay their wages out of our taxes, so why not help us with the things that we desperately need.
Interviewer
Do you think that there's anybody looking out for your interests?
Gale Peckham
No there's not. I haven't got enough money. If you've got money then they look after you. But if you ain’t got money they don't care. They don't want you. You've got to have money or they don't care. If you've got big money - hey oh yeah! You ain’t got none? Well - go away. That's basically how it works. It's terrible; you know the stuff they do. It's just like the war we're in over in Iraq. I don't agree with it, I never have and I think it was all over oil. And I think that was the whole thing - we have some guy that wants their oil and I think that is exactly what this whole war is over - oil!
Gale Peckham
Well I think we should be helping our people instead of helping the rest of the world when our people need it. If none of our people need it then yes, I could see going over there and helping but when our people need it and they're turning our people away and sending millions of dollars to them and we're paying for it but we can't get help.
Interviewer
I can hear your frustration. If I'm the Governor, if I'm John Huntsman or if I'm a legislator sitting here, what would you like to say to me?
Gay Peckham
It's nice to have places where families can go and enjoy themselves together like the new hockey rink but it's not the answer. They've got all the rest of the things - they've got the basketball, they've got the baseball, they've got so many other things, and yeah it is nice to be able to go to the hockey thing but they use the E-Center for the hockey, why not continue (the soccer). Anyway, instead of investing in a building that so many people's not going to be able to use. They don't have the money for it. Put that extra money that you've got that's burning a hole in your pocket towards the healthcare of others that need it. There's so many people that need that help that obviously he doesn't need the help and obviously he's looking the other way. It's not just certain people, it's so many people and there's so many people that need the help and if they take all of this extra money that they're wondering what they're going to do with it and where it's going to do the most good. Well I noticed that the schoolteachers are going to get a raise and that's a good thing. The teachers need the more and the kids need the pencils and the paper and the books - yes they do, but there's people that need their medication, they need the doctors, they need their healthcare and that money - I think it would be better just to help the people that are in need like that. And that's a lot of people, it's not just a few of us, it's a lot of people, put the money where it's needed, not where it’s wanted. There's a big difference. There are too many people that it's a real necessity for them, so if you've got a couple of extra bucks in your pocket to go to a game, how many people don't have the money for their medication and for their doctor bills? It needs to be balanced somewhere and somehow.
Gale Peckham
In Canada you know they have their free medication and all that for people up there that live in Canada and that's good but the United States says, well we can't do that because the health and welfare would drop and it wouldn't be as good. Well the way it's working out is not any good. The United States hasn't got the number one hospitals in the world, they're not the top. They used to be but the way they are anymore, they're greedy. These hospitals say we're not making any money. Well I don't know if you are or not but it seems awfully funny you keep on adding on and doing this and doing that, and there ain’t no money being made? It's costing them money every month? Well I don't know how you guys can do it because you know; you go to the hospital and be there for a couple of days and you've got a bill you that you wonder how...you should own half of the wing! It's scary. On that arena out there in Sandy they’re going build, that hockey arena - who's going to make money off of it? The government's not going to get money off of that. Yeah they will for the taxes but somebody's going to make big money - a lot of money and somebody else invested their money so they could make money for somebody else and to me...they won’t give me that kind of money to invest so I could make big money. But why can they do it for some people and not everybody? Like I say, you know as well as everybody else, somebody is going to make a lot of money on that thing when they get it going and everything gets going and that somebody is going to get rich off that. I don't think that's right.
Gay Peckham
I just hope one day that the people that are in control will open their eyes and see what's needed by the people that depend on them for their needs. Maybe one day that will happen, if they can help out the people that are in need of the healthcare and maybe one day it will turn around. It would be nice to see.
