Interview
Dr.
Westley
Q: In two or three words, how would you describe Polynesians?
A: Wonderful, good people. They're happy. Perhaps they can contribute to Utah.
Q: What is the Polynesian gift to Utah, would you say?
A: That's a tough question. In terms of what Polynesians have contributed, it gives the people of Utah a sense of diversity, enjoying a different culture (a culture that believes in sharing and caring for one another). There are some wonderful things about the culture that perhaps need to be brought out so that people will enjoy it. Looking out for each other, a sense of collaboration and corporation.
Q: Why did you come to Utah? Could you tell me in a nutshell, why are you here?
A: I suppose like many other Polynesians who have migrated and left the island countries and have come to Utah with the idea that education will help your children to be successful in life. Everyone believes that America is the land of opportunity. So from that perspective, we come to Utah with the idea that one will get an education, that one will get his or her fortune in terms of acquiring wealth, there's the good life. And so from that perspective I guess we all have our reasons, but educational opportunities for our children is one of the key reasons why many of the Pacific Islanders come to Utah.
Q: Let's get into some of the basic vertical vs. horizontal, some of the challenges that Polynesians have found in moving here. The challenges and conflicts as far as the vertical vs. Horizontal culture where yours is one of sharing, of bringing everyone along together, where you don't have the competitiveness.
A: That's very true. The cultural background of the people. They live in villages. The relatives are very closely knit. And so from that perspective, every body moves together, everyone works together for the good of everyone. So when they come over here, the unique culture over her, or in this setting where one has to be extremely competitive, it makes it very difficult for them. It is not easy to adapt to this situation. In terms of sharing your paycheck with relatives when you get a lot of money, you expect them to share. And so from that perspective, it makes it very difficult to adapt to the setting over here. I'm not sure what else. Go ahead and ask the question one more time.
Q: Getting to the term vertical vs. horizontal culture, how is the family structure of Polynesia different from the family structure here. What are the conflicts or challenges that are the result of that?
A: The Polynesian family has always extended family so it becomes a large group of people. They do look out for each other. And so when something happens to the family, everyone gathers around and helps everyone. With the same situation with material things, when you have a lot of money you are expected to share. That in itself in a sense of collaboration, a sense of working together.
Compared to mainstream America, the culture that we have is very individualistic. Here you do your own thing to get ahead. So from that perspective, it is difficult for that relationship. For example, when we have a mixed marriage where the husband is Polynesian and the wife is Anglo. When the husband gets his paycheck, sometimes his allegiance to his parents shows in that he is expected to share his paycheck with his parents who may not have a lot. Sometimes the wife feels like she's not taken care. That's something that is difficult. And so, how do you work around it so that you keep both parties happy. Your wife vs. your parents, where do you draw the line? So that one example in terms of differences of culture.
Q: Let's talk about when the parents move over from the island and they may not have a command of the English language, where their kids are in school. What kind of challenges and conflicts are the result of that?
A: Any Polynesian parent wants their child to be successful in school. But the challenge has to do with the cultural way of this limited dialogue. Parents want to help their children, but they also don't know how. They have limited English, limited experiences with education. And that's based on their background. Some of them have been to school and others have not. They would like to help their children to be successful with their homework, but if they have limited knowledge then how can they help their kids? I think there is also another aspect that has to do with the economic demands. Trying to make a living over here, both mom and dad have to work. In some instances one works in the day while the other works in the evening.
When you see that both parents are very busy, it just creates problems for the kids in terms of helping them to be successful in school. There is another aspect that has to do with the role model effect.
If there are no educated Polynesians in your family, you don't have the role models to say, "Look at my uncle, or look at my auntie, they have been very successful in school". I mean it's happening today. We're beginning to see more Polynesians going for further education and talking about graduate degrees and things like that. Those people who are forging ahead are the one who are helping these younger generations, these younger kids to say, "Yeah, my relative is going to school and getting further education." So those things are important for the overall picture, how to help these Polynesian kids to be successful in gaining an education or being in school.
Q: Let's talk about the kids in school, in the classroom, how the conflict of what they're taught at home to be seen and not heard in the school. How do you encourage them to raise their hand and jump into the conversation?
A: That's a very true observation that from a cultural perspective children are to be seen at home and not heard. Then when they go into the classroom, Western view is that one needs to question everything to make certain that everything is true, that it is factual. The children, when they are home, there is very limited dialogue. They observe, they watch, they don't ask a lot of questions. Mom and Dad are the authority.
Then when they go to school, they are expected to ask questions. Those students need to acquire skills. Such skills as learning to ask questions, learning to participate in the classroom, even learning skills related to learning how to study, how to take tests. Those things have to be taught. They do better in a classroom that is structured. Mainly because in the home setting it is structured where the parents give the directions. And so in the school setting, the teachers have to give directions, have to help them.
So when you let Polynesian students do things on their own, they don't know how to do it. So teachers who give directions and structure help them. But not only that, but as I indicated earlier, that the student must acquire those skills: skills of writing, skills of asking questions; and then that gives them confidence and skills of speaking.
So when they master the English language, and when they master the skills of asking questions, and when they realize that part of the culture is to look straight in the person eyes, then they become assertive and there is a sense of confidence. Then they begin to participate in the classroom. Otherwise, they don't say a whole lot. They look down. They don't look straight at the teacher. So those are cultural things that they need to overcome if they are to be successful in our classrooms in America.
Q: Are Polynesian parents too harsh and abusive?
A: The Polynesian culture where spanking and hitting kids is part of the culture, parents sometimes find themselves in trouble with the law in terms of being abusive. It's something that Polynesian people, and I'm talking about all Polynesians who use that type of discipline, will have to learn to use dialogue and to use reasoning to learn why the child is misbehaving. In mainstream America we cannot use that because it's against the law.
It is true, as I have indicated that when we do that in the Pacific, kids are expected to be punished through spanking or through hitting. So kids grow up knowing that if you misbehave, you get that kind of discipline. So in this type of setting, we have to learn to reason things out, to understand more why the behavior, and come up with alternatives.
I firmly believe that dialogue is very, very crucial between parents and their children. It is something that Polynesian parents have to learn to do over here, to constantly talk to their children, to constantly set limits, providing consequences both positive and negative. It is something that the culture, or that the people of Polynesia, will have to learn to adapt to their own culture in terms of disciplining children.
Q: Let's talk about acceptance, discrimination if you will, about the feelings of power or lack of power.
A: I think many Polynesians have experienced that. They have first-hand experience of being discriminated, whether it be in employment situations, or indirectly in mainstream America. So that becomes a main concern with Polynesian. It's unfortunate because I believe that mainstream America must accept and integrate those people, to bring them in and look for ways to help them, so that they will feel successful.
Perhaps the outcome of feeling not part of the mainstream culture is part of what we see today in terms of gang problems. Young people, especially, experience a sense of helplessness and they don't feel accepted. From that situation they end up joining gangs. It gives them a sense of force power. We know that they feel like they are very powerful, by using weapons, guns, and doing destruction. The unfortunate thing is that a lot of innocent people get hurt. But we also know that in the long run, they become losers. It's a sad situation, but it is true.
As I have already indicated, when people don't feel like they are a part of society, part of the culture, when they feel like second rate citizens, it does affect them. I firmly believe that mainstream America will have to reach out and accept these people and integrate them and help them to become successful. Otherwise, there is a price that we have to pay. Unfortunately, it gives the Polynesians a bad name when they get involved in gangs, although it is just a handful of people. And yet the whole Polynesian community is lumped together as part of the gang problem.
Q: How successful have Polynesians been in adapting to Utah, In your opinion?
A: I believe that many Polynesian are adapting to the setting. The ones who understand that when you live in America, that when you live in Utah, you have to learn the norms, the accepted behavior, what to do to get ahead, they are doing very well. I firmly believe that education makes a huge difference. So that the ones who pursue education and learning more about the culture. Their values play a major part. I do have my Polynesian values.
I also believe that when I am in America, I have to adapt to Western values in order for me to make it over here. I've always said that when I am in the Pacific I take off my pants and put on my wrap-around and that's what I do. And when I am in Utah, I eat a lot of hamburgers so that I'll be part of the culture. You see what I'm saying.
And so from that perspective, I look at the values of the Polynesian people and look at the values of the Western culture, the best values, and put them together in order for me to get ahead. So yes, some of the Polynesians are doing great. Many of them are owning their businesses. Well some, not all. They realize that they are capable of doing their own businesses, and it's working out for them. It's giving them a livelihood. Many of them realize the importance of education, so they pursue it, and it's helping them. I believe that the underlying factor is that you need to learn the values of the Western Culture, or perhaps mainstream America in order to get ahead.
When we talk about English, learning the language and mastering it, it helps you a whole lot. You know that when you cannot speak English very well, it does affect your performance and how people perceive you. Those are the things that contribute to he success of the Polynesian people. In Utah, we still have a long way to go, in terms of the needs of the people. Housing is still a problem for them. Managing money is still another problem. And so we still have a lot of challenges, but there are some people who are making it over here. The underlying fact is that we have a long ways to go.
Q: Some people have said that as you try to preserve a culture it becomes stagnant. Other people have said "NO, what we want is to come over here and keep the culture alive." Is that possible without becoming stagnant and not adapting to western America?
A: That's a difficult question in terms of maintaining culture, avoiding having a culture become stagnant. I'm not sure how to respond to that. Basically, and once again it is related to my belief that there is some wonderful things about your culture that you need to hang on to it. And there are other things about your culture that perhaps you should not hold onto it.
The dancers, we love that the Polynesians like to share in Hawaii the spirit of Aloha. That is a wonderful thing. The caring attitude, the looking out for others, to me that's important that we hold onto. And there are other things that perhaps you should not hang on to it. There are wonderful things about the western culture that we can learn from it and adapt it. I'm not sure, that's a tough one.
Q: You've got a son who plays football. What role does sports play in the role of Utah Polynesians?
A: Sport's is a wonderful avenue for our kids to grow towards getting an education. It is a wonderful avenue for Polynesian students to pursue. The biggest challenge is maintaining their grades. The kids may be very talented in football, especially in football. I know very few Polynesian kids play basketball. But in the area of football, we see some of the Polynesians in the NFL. And so it is helping them to realize that there are opportunities for them. The Polynesian students, many of them are talented in the area of football, and volleyball, and they can pursue it. But their challenge is in maintaining their grades. So if they can learn to study hard, do their very best and, maintain their grades, then that's an opportunity to gaining an education. That is a wonderful opportunity, when we talk about sports, and they can take advantage of that.
I think Polynesian students need a lot of help in terms of how to study, disciplining themselves to study. Counselors play a major part if they can help the students to buckle down and study and get some good grades, their sports will help them a whole lot.
Q: What would you want to say, that I haven't asked you in increasing awareness. What should the viewers know about the Polynesians that we haven't talked about? What is important to you?
A: I believe that the Polynesians here want to be a part of Utah. They want to be accepted, and they like to contribute to the state. I don't think it is the intention to be a liability. It is unfortunate that some of the Polynesians are not contributing. They are creating a bad perception, an image of the Polynesian people. But they've intended to come and live in Utah, they want to make it the best place in America. And there are a lot of wonderful Polynesians. I think they want to be understood.
The framework they operate is very much related to their values, caring and sharing, and giving love, that is part of their culture. I think that they want to be good neighbors. They want their children to be accepted in school. They want them to do good in school. They like to have teachers who understand their culture and the framework. And at the same time know how to teach their kids effectively.
As I have already pointed out, there are certain things that if the teachers do not understand the Polynesian framework it is difficult. But that's not enough to understand the framework, they need to go beyond that understanding to help the Polynesian students to be successful in this setting. It is not enough just to know what they are like, but give them the basic skills that open up and give them the proves so that they'll be able to function within the society.
I think the Polynesian people will have to constantly learn to adapt those values from mainstream America and make it part of them. When it comes to parental involvement in school, Polynesian parents need to be part of it. They have to step forward and be heavily involved in what's happening in the community.
I think we tend to hold back, and we don't want to come out, whether it be civic matters, matters in school, church activities. And so from that perspective, they've got to be involved. From that perspective, I think that it would make a big difference in terms of overcoming the barriers of misunderstanding that interaction. The thought crossed my mind that sometimes you know somebody and you think, "How could he be Tongan?" or, you see what I'm saying. From that perspective, we understand someone and we realize why they do the things they do. It does creative understanding. And so basically those are the things that I think will make a big difference. The people want to be part of Utah's culture. The people want to contribute, and make it work. And the Polynesian people want their children to be successful.
The Polynesian Gift to Utah is made possible by a generous grant from the R. Harold Burton Foundation.
