Roy Smith interview

Interviewer
Tell me your name and where you're from, and then tell me your boarding school experiences, for example, how you felt when you were first asked to go to school and how you were treated there.

Roy Smith
My names is Roy Smith and I'm originally from Big Mountain, Arizona, which is the four-corners of the state in Arizona.  I was nine years old mid-September when I was hauled off to a boarding school--a school called Low Mountain. And didn't know one word of English, and the only thing I ever did was herd sheep. And there was three other relative guys of mine that we were all round up and put in a bus, sort of like a cage.  I guess people didn't ask us to be hauled off to a boarding school, but they never... our parents were sort of... didn't want us to go to school somehow, but we were hauled off.  Three other guys were dropped off at a near school… by a school called Pinion.  I was the one hauled off to a school called Low Mountain. 

My name is Roy Smith and I'm originally from Big Mountain, Arizona.  In 1959 in mid-September I was one of the four students that was hauled off to a boarding school.  In mid-September we were hauled off.  Three of my other relatives were sent to a school called Pinion, and I was hauled off to a place called Low Mountain, Low Mountain boarding school.  I guess my first experience with going to a boarding school was the loneliness and the homesick because all of the things you ever did was herd sheep.  The saddest or the lonely part was the first month of your school year, you know.  You miss your sheep dog and you miss your animal that you've been around them--not so much your parents, but the things you did at home, you know, that were the loneliest part.  But as far as experience at boarding school, I don't know, for some reason this school--I liked it.  They treated me fine and I began to cope with whatever was brought to me at a boarding school life, and it's funny that the building that we used to stay in was like an egg-shaped.  We girls on the other side and the boys on the other side, and the center was the living room, and we all meet together in the living room and we had good conference.  Being a boy back then, what I was exposed to was cowboy and Indian movie.  Indians were always the bad ones and the cowboys were always the good guys, and I was exposed to that. And then there was a war movie with the Indian and the soldiers, and we used to cheer for the soldier, you know when they were coming out in the movie, and all in all during my boarding school life, you know--that was my first boarding school life that I experienced, you know.  I only went to school there for three months.  See, I lived out in a remote area.  Out in the Big Mountain area there's no transportation or nothing, so come to Christmas vacation, nobody came for me and I was sent back home with a special vehicle that takes people that don't have their parent's show up.  So I went from September to December and on my way home, and I never went back to school again, and I went on to herding sheep again.  So that was my short, brief three months of boarding school at Low Mountain. 

Interviewer
How did they treat you in terms of your culture?  Were you encouraged to keep that culture and your language and dress and things like that?

Roy Smith
Well that never came about until I was put into another school.  It was a school called Tuba City.  I mean Tuba City was drastically a bigger school with more students, and that was... talk about experience.  There were bullies and there was what you call dormitory aides, and we were treated like militaries.  You had to stand in a straight line; you had to stand on your knees.  Anytime you say one word of Navajo or something, they will shave a bar of soap, and they will put it in your mouth and they'll tell you to wash it out.  And we had marched to the dining room, and when we sit there and eat we had to keep one side of our hand underneath the table and eat with one, and there would be a guy walking around--an instructor.  If they find you talking or saying something, you know, you get your name written up.  And I thought all boarding schools was just like the first one, but this was just unbearable--and they tell me to forget my culture.  They tell me I have to educate myself, and that I have to do this and that.  So it was very unbearable. And I went there for six years. And as time went along I think the school sort of changed, and I sort of changed myself as I went with the school.  Those were the worst part of my years at a boarding school. 

Interviewer
Did they allow you to have long hair and things like that? 

Roy Smith
Well in any school the first thing they do is they'll shave your head off, even if you have a hair bun or, you know, something. They'll strip all of that out of you, and certain type of boarding school clothes, and they'll herd you into the shower and you really have to scrub down. And after the shower they have a jar of Vaseline, and you have to wax down your whole body with that Vaseline, and so everything is taken from you then.  You know you don't keep anything cultural like jewelry or anything, you know.  They strip everything out of you. 

Interviewer
How did you feel about that?

Roy Smith
Well at that time to me I thought that was all part of the school and that was all part of being at that institution or boarding school... that comes with it and I never thought of it anyway.  But in a sense, being that I come from a cultural and very traditional, I missed my grandparents.  Some of the teachings and some of the offerings that we do in the morning, and some of the corn pollen pray that we had, and I missed it.  But here I was told to forget that, you know.  This is not the way you need to go.  So, it's how I grew up in that school.

Interviewer
Did they ever encourage you to practice your own religion and things like that?

Roy Smith
You know it's funny that you ask me that.  When I went to Low Mountain there was three different churches; there was the L.D.S. and there was a Catholic and then there was a Presbyterian.  Somehow I went with L.D.S., and the guy that used to do recruiting took guys out on hikes, and somehow I was recruited and then I was baptized, you know, just being with the group.  And when I went to Pinion. There wasn't enough boys to be baptized, and I was one of them there in the group, and I told them I was baptized... so you come to Holbrook with us.  It was the only place where you were baptized.  So they haul me off there with then again, and I got baptized again.  And when I went to an Indian school, I got baptized again--three times.  You know, they don't ask you were you baptized before?  I says, ya... and he just goes on and on and they forced it on you.  My own religion was not brought up, was never taught...

My own religion--it was never brought up to me, never brought into me saying that you should relearn it.  It was never brought up to me... nothing.

Interviewer
What happened if you were to practice that religion?

Roy Smith
Well any kind of item that you have--either like corn pollen or a mountain tobacco or something, those are forbidden.  You don't use things like that at that school.  Those were stricken.  It's been brought down from the years when they built the boarding school.  It's just been that way.

Interviewer
What kind of punishment would you receive if you did something wrong culturally?

Roy Smith
I remember one time when I talked about my grandfather, how he does certain prayers and certain ceremonies when you have a nightmare.  I was only talking about that and in that sense, and I was punished for that.  I ended up scrubbing the bathroom; the urinal, the toilet bowl and the floor you know.  You have to scrub it down, and the dormitory aid will come in and inspect and see how well you did.  And those were the punishments that were given to you.  There were other severe punishments that was also brought on you.

Interviewer
And how about your native hair--what happened to your hair?

Roy Smith
When I was put in boarding school back in Low Mountain, I remember I got my head shaved off.  It's really interesting how, just like the egg-shape that I was telling you about--the middle of the living room we had the boys and girls all circle around me--and they came with a clipper and they were shaving my head off, and I was so embarrassed of bald hair that I have.  I never wanted to have the long hair because of that embarrassment, and so I never grew my hair long again ever since then. 

Interviewer
We were talking a little bit about the lessons learned.  What do you think are the lessons learned from the boarding school experience and the lack of cultural identity, and some of those things that have happened to you?

Roy Smith
I think the lessons learned on both sides is that, you know the colonization of the American Indians is that, you cannot take away their culture.  You cannot take away their tradition, and any urban cities or wherever you know.  Look at what happened to our people.  Look at the main outposts of Gallop.  To this day there is alcoholism; you know that has destroyed some people's culture and traditional being.  And then the lessons learned from the Anglo society that's trying to impose certain Christianity or a certain belief has never succeeded.  When you impose the freedom of religion, you as yourself, you know are the pilgrims who were homeless at one time.  You try to decentralize some kind of a civilization and it doesn't work.  So those are the two lessons that were learned on both sides.  That's the way I view it now. 

Interviewer
When you think back to your ancestors and the people that went on the Long Walk, how do you feel about those people today and how they suffered at that time?

Roy Smith
You know the stories that I heard from my paternal grandparents years ago was that certain people had certain land or wealth or animals or certain areas that they practiced certain beliefs.  That was destroyed.  And then a certain avenue of life, like a land that a certain family had lived... they're gone.  Those were taken away and a lot of people suffered.  A lot of people lost the whole family and some people would say that, you know, we had this relative and we had this family at that time, but they were gone--either they were on their way to Fort Sumner or during the encampment. 

Interviewer
What do you think about the brutality of those times?

Roy Smith
I think it's, in any instance where there is captivity, if the people don't do their… I guess investigate as to how you can survive these people just like this.  They wanted to be taught how to be farmers, but that was failure.  But beforehand somebody should have known what was going on--how the land would adapt to these kinds of encounters.