Ruth Roessel interview

Interviewer
Ruth, why don't we start out by talking about this rockslide out here?  Tell me what the significance of this rockslide is.

Ruth Roessel
In 1966 when we came back here, to this place, here, and that's when I learned about that.  Before that I didn't know because I wasn't from this community.  I'm from Ron Rock Community.  So during that time that there were a lot of Navajo around here, and we communicate with a lot of Navajos here at school. The school was call Demonstration School, so we have more Navajos around the school. So at that time when they're talking about the rockslide, and I asked the questions, you know, "when did it happen?" and they said that during that time, about 60 years ago and that happened, they said.  And then they said that the reason landslide or rockslide like that, it meant something to the Navajos and their belief is something that, you know, harm them and their future, so they have to offer right away so those things won't happen.  So during that time that they were telling me that there were more Mexi-men here, and they put up maybe about six, what we call, sweat house, and they were having a ceremony going on for about four days, maybe in the sweat house, and at the same time they were doing the chanting, and so it kind of like erased them or this is what the rock is telling me or the slide is telling them... it will never happen again and it will never hurt them... the community.  They were saying that if it's all the Navajos, not even living around here. That was their interpretation about the rockslide. 

Interviewer
Why don't you start off by telling me your name and where you're from and then tell me the story about your grandmother being on the Long Walk?

Ruth Roessel
My name is Ruth Roessel and I live at Ron Rock and I have five children.  My oldest daughter is living in Washington D.C., she's a lawyer.  My second daughter is an M.D. psychiatrist, and she's living in Santa Fe.  And my son is living in Phoenix, and he's an engineer.  My third son is working here with, me and he's my boss.  The fifth son is working with the B.I.E., and he's a hydrologist.  So I have five kids and living here--I came back here in 1966 and I went to school at Arizona State University... I get all of my degree from there.  So I came back and I was teaching, and then I started a Navajo Community College here with my late husband, and then ever since then I've been around here helping my people and teaching them about what I believe, which is Navajo culture. So that's what I'm doing, and I'm still doing it here at the school. 

I'm Ruth Roessel from Ron Rock, Arizona and my grandmother's name was "Raggedy lady" which means (Navajo), and my dad told me about her, that she went to Fort Sumner--she was captured four times.  She ran away all the four times but the last time.  They took her, the army took her and then... all the way to... she didn't go all the way to Fort Sumner, but she went as far as I think the other side of Albuquerque. And they were camping out there, and I guess there are several camps around so she was kind of like a leader as the woman.  A general was her friend and so she was kind of telling all the women what to do and what to cook and kind of like being in charge of everything.  And then one year she went by, and she was doing o.k., and the second year she kind of didn't like to be away from her home, which is where she grew up. And then, so she began to talk to her other friends and just saying, "I don't want to be here... I don't want to die here... I want to go back to my home and where I live," which is Waterless Mountain right by Black Mesa and south from here. And then she began to make a plan with her other friend, a lady, a young lady, and they were saying that "We are going to run away and go back home, and I want you to make some food and some lunch so we'll take off at one in the morning."  So the day that came and she was ready to go, and her friend was a General and he was just laying down and asleep and he went to sleep so she walk out through the door and they said that every time that somebody moved the tent either the horse made the noise or the dog made the noise and so when she went out and she saw a dog by the doorway and she talked to the dog to say that "I don't want you to make any noise.  I want to go home to my home and I don't want to die here, and I'd rather die in my own place that I belong to."  So the dog, he just didn't move and sleep, and then she went passing by the horse, she talked to the horse and said "I want to go home, and don't tell on me and I'm leaving."  She was waiting for her friend to come, but she never came so she just went and took off.  So she ran.  She ran for a long time and there was a river right by and she went right across the river.  They said the river water was real deep, but she made it across and then went on the other side and she ran all the way. And the morning came and past lunch and then she saw all of the soldier army coming and follow her, and then so she was running and then she found there was a horse with a little coat on... this must have been spring time.  And so she got on the horse, took her sash belt off and put it around the neck and she took off with the horse and ran a long way.  Then they came, and then she hide herself under a bush. And then she was laying down there and they just ride over her, and they didn't find her and all this, and then she stay in there all night.  And then she came out of there at night and everybody went back so she walked that night for a long, long time.  She went to the mountain and then it was really dark, and then she said the owl was right by her making the noise, and then she felt that the owl was telling me something--either to follow me or something--so she went and followed the owl all night long in the mountain or in the woods.  The next morning she walked again for a long, long time and she came to another place that was at night, and then she saw a bear again this night, second night.  She saw the bear on the other side of the river, there was another river she was going past, and then she was afraid how deep the water was.  And then the bear walked in the water walking towards her and the water wasn't nothing.  She thought I can make it, it's not that deep.  So the bear sat right by her and the bear kind of motioned her to like with his head to go on, and she thought that maybe the bear ask me to follow me, so then she got up and she start following the bear all the way across the river, and then went on.

Interviewer
Tell me about the Long Walk.  Why did the Long Walk happen?

Ruth Roessel
Well the way I understand is they were a group of Navajos that were kind of running around through other reservations, and the other Navajos were trying to tell them to behave themselves and not causing any trouble for the other tribes, but this other group of Navajos they just continued doing that--like they go and attacked the Apache or Zuni or other tribes that surround us on the reservation. So that's where they say a report took place. And they got trying together, and they were told that the government is going to come to take them.  Finally it happened, and so again the Navajo was working for help them get all of these Navajos that are bad, and they take them all into over to Canyon de Chelly.  I guess that's where they really took them, a lot of Navajos, and they couldn't believe that this was going to happen--but it happened to them.  So pretty soon the whole (failure) was involved. And then they didn't believe that the army was coming to get them, but a lot hidden in the Canyon de Chelly where there was a hiding place. And then some of the people they were hiding where there were cliffs, and where they can't be reached, and there's a place called The Secret Place or Fortune Rock--a lot of people moved out on top of that rock and then they stay out there.  They were saying that maybe over 100 people, that they had climbed up there, and they had survived, some of them didn't, some of them just died and starved, starvation or anything sickness like that happened.  And so all of the things happened to them, and then one time... they have kind of a cliff--a big, big place and there were Navajo group. Navajo went over there and then they trying to hide it there with the family and the children, everything.  And then they saw the army coming from the canyon and the wash and they all lined up coming, and then this man, they said he kind of doesn't listen and trying to told to be quiet and people might attack us and find us where we are.  And then this man got up and starts screaming, and start yelling to these army, and this is where the army saw them.  They throw things to blow up the family, and all of the things happened there.  Today you can just see all of the bones and everything there where the Navajo were all being killed, and I think it must be about a couple hundred Navajos that were there.  I didn't go up there because it was kind of climbing rocks and so only the other people who were with me, they went up there and they took pictures, and so I'm sure they saw the pictures there.  That is one of the reasons the guest start up from there.  Then from there on they went to I guess... from there they took them from Fort Defiance again.  The Fort Defiance is where it was a lot of things took place again.  They said that the people there, the old folks, they could hardly walk and they couldn't make it, and so they just shoot them on the way. And they just went on, even some pregnant woman.  They just couldn't carry their baby.  And some of them had babies there on the way, but some of them they just couldn't. And they just shot them there.  So they went to Fort Defiance--that's where they spent I don't know how many years there again.  And they spent a long time there at Fort Defiance and from there they were taken to Fort Sumner again.  And the Navajo were thinking this is really bad at what happened to them.  They were being treated that way and just like a bunch of animals or dogs and being shot when nothing.  And so today we look back and think about those things. 

Interviewer
Tell me the story about the soldiers shooting the pregnant woman.  How did that happen?

Ruth Roessel
Understand that the lady was going to have a baby, and then they told her to get onto a... I don't know if it's a wagon or a horse or something, and then the army said, just don't waste any time and just leave her here and just shoot her, and that's it.   Something like that happen.  The actually... when I interview these Navajos they actually tell me about all of these things.

Interviewer
What kind of brutality was there on the Long Walk do you think?

Ruth Roessel
I don't really know.  All they can say is, it was really, you know... it was really sad what happened and how it was being handled. 

Interviewer
How do you feel about your ancestors who were on the Long Walk?

Ruth Roessel
I really felt bad about now days. And the history tells you a lot of things, and then history tells you that really makes you think that sometimes you think that sometimes I wish I was living there or be a part of it, but you know yet again I think all that history is trying to make you wake up and teaching you something and the way behave of the people, and so even though the Navajo wasn't as bad as like today, in those days the Navajo were just being treated like that.  They didn't do anything so they were handled by, just like I say, like nothing.  I think about it, what kind of people were there, those people, they handled people that way, and these sort of things, it makes you think, it makes you sad because my grandmother was there.  My grandmother came back, and she taught a lot of things. 

Interviewer
Tell me again about your grandmother... what were you going to say?

Ruth Roessel
My grandmother like, when my daddy told me about all these things my grandmother. And so she taught us a lot of things, what her experiences was, and also she bring lots of holy things. And the Navajo people, they call the holy people, and then sometimes you don't know what it mean, but in the Navajo way you say the holy people (in Navajo).  So my grandmother was a lot of experience with that thing on the way home to... so that's what she was telling about all the bad thing that happened to her on the way home and to my dad.  So it's, you know, it's pretty sad but at the same time, you know there's nothing we can do about it today, but all we can do is our history, that's all. 

Interviewer
Tell me about Kit Carson.  What do you think about Kit Carson?

Ruth Roessel
Kit Carson, they call him (in Navajo).  He's a man with a big beard and so that's why... I think he was really a bad person to me; the way that he's handled the Navajos.  Why is he doing that?  Why is he gathering all these Navajos through other reservations and what was he accomplishing to, you know by doing that when that's... you know sometimes I think about those things like that.  But I don't think he done anything for the Navajos.  But today I look back to the government--what did they pay us?  You know, what they did to us, you know, and so sometimes you see things, it makes you think, you know--they killed a thousand, a thousand Navajos for no reason and then why is this happen?  Sometimes I think about those things. 

Interviewer
How did the walk happen?  Did they actually walk the whole way or did they ride...?

Ruth Roessel
Most of the people walk. And most of the people are walk, some if they're lucky, I guess, they were in the wagon or in some kind of stick sitting on it with the horse pulling them.  Most of the time they're all walking.  If they walk they can't make it, and they just stay right there behind and that's it. 

Interviewer
What were the conditions like at Bosque Redondo...?

Ruth Roessel
I really don't know.  I'm sure he was, you know... trying to think of something... helping the Navajo or to herd them.  I don't know what he was thinking.

Interviewer
How about the Long Walk home when they actually left Fort Sumner and came back to their lands?

Ruth Roessel
The Navajo, when they're treated at the Fort Sumner in 1968, I think they were so happy and then...

...1868 and the Navajo when they were released and signed the treaty I think they were all happy that they were all going to come back here to be free.  And one thing that the Navajos they were promised was not every child and the thirty students in the classroom were to be taught in English and given a lot of helps, and today it's not really happen.  One of the times that we have some money... we had lots of money for the students, they're all going to school today and it doesn't really happen, and so they keep their promise, you know that will happen.

Interviewer
How do you feel about the Long Walk today?  How do you feel about what happened to your people?

Ruth Roessel
Well I feel like today, like I said that I'm a teacher, and I teach even my coming to people, and to think about what happened in the past and doesn't make you think.  It doesn't make you proud to be a Navajo, but during that time, like I say, that I wish it didn't happen, the way they were treated because like they were shooting them with the babies and little kids and all this and it makes you kind of angry today and why these things happen?  Don't those people have a heart and those army, and you know why they did it to these people?  That's what I think sometimes.  It kind of makes me wonder, and it makes me mad. 

Interviewer
What do you think are the lessons learned by the Long Walk?

Ruth Roessel
Well I think maybe we learn something about, I think, that the history what teach us is something you know for the young people today.  They're in a position that is like the young people today, a lot of them are they wanted to get even with the army, but they couldn't do it but they kind of act like big and they can do, you know they can do better. But today does teach them a lesson that this was happened to us and we shouldn't do that again, you know.  So we're trying to have the kids, young people behave themselves and teach them about mostly history and the culture and the land which, if they learn and to be proud of who they are, I think they can be a better people today with our youth and with our people. 

Interviewer
Was there a lot of raiding going on?  Did the Navajo raid other tribes?

Ruth Roessel
Yes they did.  That's how the Long Walk began.  They go around to Zuni, and they go around to Apache.  They go around to Utes and all of these other people.  They went out... the young people went out and raiding, and also the Mexicans do the same thing too, so that's where it start.

Interviewer
How about slaving and taking the children...?

Ruth Roessel
They had a lot of things happen in slave... the young kids and they traded them down in Mexico and then traded with the Navajo kids, and they coming over there and the selling the kids and trading them with like the Denado(?).  A lady we were talking about, she was, her brother was being traded and taken down to Mexico and she was talking about those things.