Program Details
Host Doug Fabrizio talks to Utah playwright, Aden Ross. Known internationally for her work, her latest production, Amerika is an examination of the relationship between money and power, lies and "terrorism." After a sold out Salt Lake run, Plan-B Theatre is taking the play, Amerika to the Toronto Fringe Festival this summer. What is Aden Ross' process of creating art while surrounded by our unique Utah culture? What does her work tell us about how we do or don't get along as a society?
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INTRO
DOUG FABRIZIO
ADEN ROSS WILL TRY ANYTHING. WELL, WITHIN REASON.
A POET, AN ARTIST, A TEACHER, SHE WRITES PLAYS AND NOVELS AND ACADEMIC TEXT, BUT SHE'S NOT ABOVE GOING TO A MONSTER TRUCK RALLY AND SHE HAS TWO HARLEYS. FOR HER, ART IS ABOUT ENGAGING
IN THE WORLD, ABOUT REWORKING AND QUESTIONING THE FRAMEWORK AROUND WHICH MOST OF US BUILD A COMFORT ZONE.
FOR DECADES THEY HAVE ... SHE'S BEEN PUSHING AT THE ESTABLISHED ORDER ALSO BY PUSHING HERSELF. TODAY ON UTAH NOW, ADEN ROSS.
OPEN
DOUG FABRIZIO
HELLO, AND WELCOME TO "UTAH NOW." I'M DOUG FABRIZIO.
A COUPLE YEARS AGO RIDING ONE OF HER TWO HARLEYS, ADEN ROSS TOOK A SPILL.
A PRETTY NASTY ONE.
SHE WAS OUT FOR EIGHT HOURS.
AN EXPERIENCE LIKE THAT CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE.
FOR ADEN IT MEANT STRIPPING AWAY SOME OF THE STUFF THAT SHE'D ACCUMULATED OVER THE YEARS, WHICH INCLUDED LOTS OF BOOKS. SHE TOLD THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE THE BOOKS THEMSELVES ARE IRRELEVANT, IT WAS THE IDEAS WITHIN THE BOOKS THAT MATTERED. YOU CARRY WITH YOU WHAT YOU ARE, SHE SAID.
IT WASN'T THE FIRST TIME ADEN ROSS REEXAMINED THE PIECES OF HER LIFE. IT'S A PART OF WHO SHE IS. BUT THROUGH ALL THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN ONE CONSTANT ... IT'S ART.
IN FOCUS: ADEN’S AMERIKA
Narrator
despite her gentle and serene disposition – there’s something pretty restless about aden ross – you see it in her work. take her latest play amerika – which recently ENDED a sold-out run in salt lake city – aden built the play AROUND the themes she sees in the war on terror – FANATICISM and the abuse of power. jerry rapier directed the play – which he says is giving her yet another level of recognition.
Jerry Rapier
Plan-B theater Company
“It’s almost as if she’s introducing herself to an entirely new generation of theater goers. The Creation of America is writing from a place of real concern of the country that she does not recognize any longer, to use a phrase she’s used throughout this developmental process. She’s concerned about where it’s headed and that the America she grew up in no longer exists.”
Narrator
yet rather than create a shrill political manifesto – aden ross make her play as COMPLICATED as are the matters of any war. the PROCESS of writing it make her re-examine her own prejudices. amerika works not because she questions the motivations of the country ruling class – but because she has the guts to question her own.
Rapier
“She always thought of “those people over there” as fanatics., opposite her point of view. But she realized in that creative process that she actually was the same thing on the other end of the spectrum. and once she made that realization she was, it freed her to create amerika a much more balanced look at a cross section of power in america, and what that power means, and who it benefits.”
Narrator
the play seems to resonate with people because of its honesty – aden ross realizes rather than simply picking SIDES – we all exist in that void BETWEEN the america that empowers us and the american that controls us.
Rapier
Aden has received letters and emails and phone calls from people she doesn’t even know…commenting to her that they cannot stop thinking about it. They can’t stop talking about it. Not necessarily for the content of the play but for what the content of the play forces them to do as far as examining their own prejudices, their own view on what it means to be an american.
Narrator
so decades into an acclaimed body of work – aden ross is still trying to figure it out – but she’s brave ENOUGH to admit it – and wiling enough to move beyond the comfort of home and hit the road.
DOUG FABRIZIO
AND JOINING US NOW IN THE STUDIO IS ADEN ROSS. ADEN, WELCOME.
ADEN ROSS
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
DOUG FABRIZIO
WHEN DID YOU FIRST START RIDING HARLEYS?
ADEN ROSS
I STARTED RIDING MOTORCYCLES WHEN I WAS ABOUT 18, SO I STARTED WITH LITTLE MOTOCROSS BIKES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I LEARNED TO RIDE ON LOGGING ROADS NEAR SEATTLE SO DIRT BIKES WERE MY LIFE FOR A WHILE AND THEN I GOT INTO STREET BIKES. BUT I'VE ONLY RIDEN HARLEYS SINCE ABOUT 1985. I GUESS QUITE A WHILE.
DOUG FABRIZIO
SORT OF IS QUITE A WHILE. YOU SAID SOMETHING WHERE ... YOU DESCRIBED IT AS RIDING A HARLEY OR JUST RIDING A MOTORCYCLE, IT REQUIRES TOTAL FOCUS.
ADEN ROSS
IT DOES. THESE DIFFERENT MOTORCYCLISTS WILL SAY, OH, I RIDE TO HAVE THE THE WIND IN MY HAIR, WHICH THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE ANYWAY BECAUSE OF HELMETS, THIS FREEDOM AND THIS GREAT, YOU KNOW ... BUT FOR ME IT IS ABSOLUTE FOCUS. IT REQUIRES YOUR UNDIVIDED ATTENTION IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY BECAUSE THE ROAD SURFACE, THESE ... I LOVE RIDING CURVY ROADS BECAUSE OF THE CONSTANTLY CHANGING EQUATIONS, CENTRIFUGAL FORCE, IT REALLY REQUIRES -- GOOD RIDING REQUIRES CAREFUL OBSERVATION. IT REALLY IMPROVES YOUR PERIPHERAL VISION, BECAUSE ANYTHING COULD BE A CHILD OR A DOG OR SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT HURT IF IT DOESN'T HURT YOU.
DOUG FABRIZIO
DO YOU EVER SEE RIDING A HARLEY, A MOTORCYCLE, AS ... NOT AS A STATEMENT BUT AS IF IT'S REPRESENTING BIGGER THAN JUST RIDING A BIKE?
ADEN ROSS
NO.
DOUG FABRIZIO
REALLY?
ADEN ROSS
I KNOW I'M SUPPOSED TO. I KNOW I'M SUPPOSED TO HAVE ALL THE HARLEY GEAR, AND I HAVE MY 40-YEAR-OLD MOTORCYCLE JACKET AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY WORDS ON IT.
AND, ACTUALLY, I GOT INTO THESE BIKES BECAUSE MY FATHER RODE HARLEYS FOR SO MANY YEARS, FOR DECADES AND DECADES, SINCE HE WAS A YOUNG BOY. AND I ACTUALLY LIKE THE SOUND ... SEE, I'M JUST NOT PART OF THE IT. I NEVER GO ON THE GROUP RIDES. I HATE ALL THAT GROUP IDENTITY KIND OF THING, BUT I LIKE THE SOUND.
ONE OF MY FRIENDS DESCRIBED IT AS POTATO, POTATO, POTATO, POTATO. ISN'T THAT GREAT?
DOUG FABRIZIO
I MENTIONED THE ACCIDENT IN THE OPENING THERE, YOU BEING UNCONSCIOUS FOR SOME EIGHT HOURS.
ADEN ROSS
UH-HUH.
DOUG FABRIZIO
HOW DID THAT EXPERIENCE CHANGE YOU, DO YOU THINK?
ADEN ROSS
I THINK IT CHANGED ME IN A LOT OF WAYS, AND I KEEP GOING BACK TO IT. IN FACT, NOW THAT I'M IN BETWEEN PLAYS OR IN BETWEEN PROJECTS, I'M GOING BACK TO THAT NOW. I STARTED WRITING OR CONTINUING TO WRITE A LONG NARRATIVE POEM ALL THE URICUITY. CONTINUED ... BECAUSE WHAT I DID IS I WOULD COME IN AND OUT OF THE UNDERWORLD AND I WOULD HAVE THESE HALLUCINATORY SEQUENCES.
THEY TOOK ME IN AN AMBULANCE FROM BLANDING, UTAH, TO CORTEZ, COLORADO BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO DO A CAT SCAN BECAUSE I WASN'T WAKING UP. AND SO THEY DID THE CAT SCAN IN CORTEZ. AND THEN THEY COULDN'T TAKE ME BACK TO BLANDING, I HAD TO GO TO A BETTER HOSPITAL THAN I LEFT, SO I ENDED UP IN MONTICELLO WITH NOBODY.
BUT THE DOCTORS TOLD ME THAT IN CORTEZ I WAS GIVING THEM A LECTURE ON, WHY WOULD YOU NAME A TOWN AFTER THE CONQUEROR? AND I WOKE UP IN MONTICELLO AND SAID, YOU'RE REPRONOUNCING THIS TOWN. THE DOCTOR SAID, WHO ARE YOU? ANYWAY, IT TURNED OUT HAPPILY, BUT IT REALLY MADE ME THINK IN TERMS OF ... WELL, I'M INTERESTED IN QUANTUM MECHANICS AND I'M INTERESTED IN ALTERNATE REALITY ... SO IT MADE ME THINK, ONE ADEN ROSS COULD HAVE DIED OR MAYBE DID, YOU KNOW, AND THIS MIGHT SOUND WEIRD, BUT IT KEEPS FEEDING INTO MY IDEA OF ALL OF THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED AND DIDN'T. OR HOW DO I KNOW THEY DIDN'T? OR IN THIS REALITY CONSTRUCT, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN THAT WAY.
DOUG FABRIZIO
WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO, YOU KNOW, PARE DOWN, TO SIMPLY IDENTIFY YOUR LIFE AFTER THAT.
ADEN ROSS
IT ISN'T SIMPLE ENOUGH, YET. I REALLY DO BELIEVE -- AND I WAS INTERESTED IN YOUR INTERVIEW EARLIER, I REALLY DO TRY TO LIVE AS IF THIS IS THE LAST MINUTE, THE LAST MINUTE THAT I HAVE. SO I THINK THAT IT FED INTO THAT ONGOING THING ABOUT JUST KEEPING TRACK OF WHAT'S IMPORTANT. AND WHAT IS IMPORTANT ARE THINGS THAT ARE NOT HOUSES. IN SPITE OF THE NUMBERS OF BOOKS AT MY HOUSE, IT'S NOT BOOKS AND PIANOS AND NOT BIKES AND NOT THINGS. THOSE REALLY AREN'T IMPORTANT. AND I'M NOT TALKING FROM A RELIGIOUS POINT OF VIEW OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, IT'S JUST WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO ME IS THAT I REALLY LIVE IN MY MIND. THAT'S WHERE I LIVE. AND SO IT GOT MY ATTENTION ON THE MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY THE EQUIVALENT OF THE TORNADO IN THE HOUSE WHERE I REALLY LIVE.
DOUG FABRIZIO
YEAH.
ADEN ROSS
DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL? PROBABLY NOT.
DOUG FABRIZIO
OF COURSE. I WONDERED IF ONE IMAGE IN PARTICULAR, YOU KNOW, A PAINTING, A BOOK, A SENTENCE, MAYBE A WHOLE BOOK THAT STAYS WITH YOU. I MEAN, YOU READ A LOT, YOU'RE EXPOSED TO A LOT OF ART, BUT IS THERE ONE THING THAT ALWAYS TENDS TO COME BACK?
ADEN ROSS
THAT'S A WONDERFUL QUESTION. I HAVE A PAINTING THAT TENDS TO COME BACK AND I HAVE TWO PIECES OF LITERATURE THAT ALWAYS, ALWAYS COME BACK, AND THIS IS GOING TO BE SO BORING.
ONE IS HAMLET AND KING LEAR. I THINK BETWEEN THOSE TWO SHAKESPEARE PRETTY MUCH COVERED HUMAN EXPERIENCE. AND THE PAINTING THAT COMES BACK TO ME AND I HAVE IT HANGING IN MY BEDROOM IS THE ALLEGORY OF ART SO THE PAINTER IS THERE AND THE WOMAN IS NEXT TO THE WINDOW. IT'S ONE OF HIS MOST COMPLEX PAINTINGS. SO THOSE TWO THINGS ... THEY'RE ONGOING EMBLEMATIC IDEAS OF ART FOR ME, OF WHAT ART DOES.
DOUG FABRIZIO
IS IT STILL THAT YOU'RE STILL KIND OF WORKING THEM OUT OR DO THEY PROVIDE COMFORT OR IS IT A PUZZLE STILL?
ADEN ROSS
COMFORT. THAT'S INTERESTING. I THINK FOR COMFORT I DON'T GO TO THOSE. I THINK FOR COMFORT I WOULD GO TO MUSIC. BUT THEY PROVIDE ONGOING QUESTIONS. AND THEY PROVIDE ONGOING
ANIGMAS, IN A WAY.
DOUG FABRIZIO
WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THAT YOU WERE DESTINED TO MAKE ART? I WONDER IF SOMETIMES YOU THOUGHT ABOUT BEING A SCIENTIST.
ADEN ROSS
UH-HUH, I DID. I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO BE A SCIENTIST.
DOUG FABRIZIO
HOW DID YOU BALANCE ALL OF THOSE OR WAS THERE A --
ADEN ROSS
THERE WERE SEVERAL. THAT'S A WONDERFUL QUESTION. I DON'T THINK ANYONE'S EVER ASKED ME THAT QUESTION. WHEN I WAS VERY YOUNG, LIKE MOST OF US I HAD IMAGINARY CHARACTERS, I THINK MOST OF US
DID. BUT MY IMAGINARY CHARACTERS WERE EXTREMELY REAL TO ME AND I WOULD KIND OF MAKE UP STORIES ABOUT THEM AND LIVE AMONG THEM. YET MY PARENTS DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS OR ANYBODY, BUT I WAS CERTAINLY LIVING AMONG THEM. AND THAT WAS FROM A VERY, VERY EARLY AGE. AND THEN I WROTE WROTE A FEW SHORT STORIES, ABOUT HORSES OR WHATEVER THE HECK IT WAS ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW,
BUT THE TIME THAT I ACTUALLY DECIDED TO NOT TO BE INTO SCIENCE I STARTED OUT IN COLLEGE IN LOS ANGELES AND I'D JUST COME OUT OF AN ORGANIC CHEMISTRY EXAM, IT WAS BECAUSE I WAS WALKING ALONG AND LOOKING AT THESE TERRIBLE EUCALYPTUS TREES AND I WAS THINKING, I WONDER IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO DO SOMETHING IN LIFE THAT YOU ENJOY RATHER THAN IS JUST BASICALLY TORTURE, ALL THAT MATH AND ... FOR ME, WHICH WAS WONDERFUL AND CHALLENGING BUT TORTUROUS. SO I THINK ABOUT THAT TIME I LEFT SCIENCE TO THE EXTENT ... HICH I HAVEN'T REALLY BECAUSE I LOVE IT.
DOUG FABRIZIO
YOU ARE STILL CAPTIVATED BY QUANTUM PHYSICS.
ADEN ROSS
I AM.
DOUG FABRIZIO
WHAT IS IT ABOUT QUANTUM PHYSICS?
ADEN ROSS
I THINK ... ACTUALLY, I THINK QUANTUM PHYSICS AND PLAY WRITING ARE QUITE PARALLEL. I KNOW YOU DON'T NEED TO HEAR THIS ON "UTAH NOW", RIGHT? BUT WHAT QUANTUM PHYSICS HAS ESSENTIALLY DONE IS PENETRATED DIFFERENT LAYERS OF REALITY, TINIER THAN WE COULD EVER THINK ABOUT. AND WHY I LOVE WRITING PLAYS MORE THAN WRITING ANYTHING ELSE IS THE FACT THAT IT IS DEALING WITH MULTIPLE LAYERS OF REALITY AT ANY GIVEN TIME.
SO YOU HAVE THE AUDIENCE SITTING THERE IN REAL-TIME AND YOU HAVE ACTUAL ACTORS IN REAL-TIME. BUT THEY'RE PRETENDING TO BE SOMEBODY ELSE LIVING REAL-TIME IN A CERTAIN SENSE BUT NOT REALLY IN A CERTAIN SENSE. THEN YOU HAVE ... SO YOU HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERENT LAYERS BUILT IN TO THE FORM, WHICH YOU DON'T HAVE IN, SAY, A SYMPHONY OR A DANCE OR A NOVEL. YOU CAN PICK UP "WAR AND PEACE" AND YOUR REAL TIME IS NOT AT ALL, YOU KNOW, COTERMINOUS WITH ... REAL-TIME. SO I LOVE THAT.
DOUG FABRIZIO
SO I KNOW YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT A BOOK NOW OR YOU'RE KIND
OF MIXING, WHAT IS IT, CLASSICAL MYTH.
ADEN ROSS
RIGHT.
DOUG FABRIZIO
WITH QUANTUM PHYSICS.
ADEN ROSS
RIGHT. DOES THIS NOT SOUND LIKE A SELLER? OH, YEAH.
QUANTUM MECHANICS AND ... WELL, HOW THEY GO TO TOGETHER IS KIND OF IN THAT SAME WAY. I THINK THAT, AND I'VE ALWAYS BEEN INTRIGUED BY CLASSICAL MYTH AND I TAUGHT MYTHOLOGY FOR A LONG TIME. I'M SO INTRIGUED WITH HOW WE KEEP RELIVING THE SAME STORIES. AND PEOPLE WHO HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE "METAMORPHOSIS" AT LEAST GOT THIS NOTION, THEY WERE DISTURBED BY IT BECAUSE THOSE STORIES ARE NOT HAPPY STORIES, THESE ARE ... WHOOPS, WHAT'S DAD DOING WITH THE DAUGHTER? WHOOPS, WHAT'S MOM DOING WITH THE SON?
SO IT'S ABOUT AS FAR AS YOU CAN GET FROM A HAPPY FAMILY SCENARIO ... SO I'VE ... AND I THINK IN SO MANY SENSES WE KEEP RELIVING THOSE KINDS OF STORIES, SO THAT'S WHY I'M INTERESTED IN MYTH.
WHY I'M INTERESTED IN QUANTUM PHYSICS IS I THINK WITHIN IT MIGHT BE SOME OF THE MYTHS OR AT LEAST THE FOUNDATION OR PARADIGM FOR NEW MYTHS BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT SCIENCE IS THAT FAR AWAY FROM ART. SO NEW SCIENCE WOULD SOMEHOW REFLECT ITSELF IN OR BE SYNONYMOUS WITH NEW ART.
DOUG FABRIZIO
DO YOU THINK OF THIS PLACE, UTAH, AS HOME?
ADEN ROSS
NO.
DOUG FABRIZIO
NO?
ADEN ROSS
NO. I'VE LIVED HERE A LONG, LONG TIME. AND I DON'T THINK OF IT AS HOME. PARTLY BECAUSE OF WHAT I SAID ABOUT LIVING IN MY MIND. AND I TRULY LIVE IN MY MIND. BUT MORE THAN THAT, THERE ... I REALLY CONSIDER THE GREAT PLAINS HOME. AND I SUSPECT THAT'S BECAUSE WE ... YOU KNOW WHERE YOU SPEND YOUR FIRST TEN YEARS OR X NUMBER, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WOULD SAY YOUR FIVE YEARS OR SOMETHING, I THINK THAT THAT SHAPES YOUR WORLD. IT SHAPES YOUR BOUNDARIES, IT SHAPES YOUR HORIZON, IT SHAPES WHAT YOU EXPECT OF PEOPLE AND WEATHER AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
AND WHY I LOVE THE PLAINS AND WHY IT FEELS LIKE HOME TO ME,
AND I KNOW I WOULD GO BERSERK IF I LIVED IN KANSAS NOW. WOULDN'T I GO BERSERK? THE KANSAS BOARD OF EDUCATION, I DON'T THINK SO. BUT WHAT ALWAYS FEELS LIKE HOME IS TO WATCH THE EARTH AROUND YOU COMPLETELY FLAT, NO MOUNTAINS, FEW TREES WHERE I GREW UP, VERY FEW TREES, FARMS VERY FAR APART AND YOU GET THE SENSE THAT YOU LIVE ON A BALL. YOU GET THE SENSE THAT YOU LIVE ON A BALL THAT IS GOING SLOWLY OR NOT SO SLOWLY THROUGH THIS GALAXY THAT'S OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF -- YOU KNOW, THAT ISN'T EVEN IMPORTANT IN THE LOCAL GALACTIC CLUSTER, LET ALONE IN THE LARGER SENSE OF THE UNIVERSE. BUT YOU GET THE SENSE THAT YOU ARE ... I REALLY SENSED THE INFINITY OF IT ALL. 99% OF YOUR VIEW AT ANY GIVEN POINT IS SKY.
AND THEN THERE'S THE WEATHER, WHICH IS VIOLENT AND SUDDEN.
AND YOU CAN SEE IT COMING AT YOU AND YOU CAN'T PROTECT YOURSELF AND I'VE BEEN THROUGH TORNADOES AND EVERYTHING. AND SO THERE'S THAT, BUT THEN THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ... AND I GROUP UP AMONG DRY FARMERS. SO LITERALLY EVERYTHING THEY DO DEPENDS ON THE WEATHER OR THE GRASSHOPPERS OR THE HAIL OR THE TOO MUCH RAIN OR THE NOT ENOUGH RAIN OR THE WHATEVER. AND I'M SURE IF I GREW UP IN UTAH THAT I WOULD HAVE THAT SENSE WITH UTAHNS WHO HAVE THEIR OWN SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES. BUT THEY DON'T HAPPEN TO BE MINE. THAT WAS A LONG ANSWER TO A SHORT QUESTION.
DOUG FABRIZIO
IT'S INTERESTING YOU SAY YOU WOULD GO NUTS IN KANSAS. BUT OF COURSE, YOU DO LIVE IN A CONSERVATIVE PLACE, AS I SAID BEFORE, A CAUTION KIND OF SOCIETY. SO WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS PLACE?
ADEN ROSS
IT'S SO FUN. IT'S FUNNY THAT I CAN FORGIVE UTAHNS MORE AND MORE. I'LL CUT YOU MORE SLACK. NO, WHAT I MAKE OF THIS PLACE, AND I'VE THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT THIS AND YOUR QUESTION OR YOUR COMMENT AT THE BEGINNING ABOUT TRYING TO CREATE ART AND WHAT WOULD BE ... WHAT IS A VERY CONSERVATIVE CULTURE IS I THINK YOU CAN LOOK AT IT SEVERAL DIFFERENT WAYS AND I THINK YOU HAVE ULTIMATELY, AND I'VE THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT IT, IS ULTIMATELY I THINK YOU HAVE TO COME BACK TO WHAT IS THE FUNCTION OF ART.
NATURALLY I'M GOING TO TAKE IT AS FAR OUT AS POSSIBLE, RIGHT?
IS THE FUNCTION OF ART TO SHOW US WHO WE ARE? IS THE FUNCTION OF ART NOT EVEN TO HOLD THE MIRROR UP TO NATURE, IN HAMLET'S WORDS BUT DO I GO TO AN ART EXHIBIT, A VISUAL ART EXHIBIT OR A PLAY IN ORDER TO SEE SOME SOMETHING OF MYSELF REFLECTED IN IT? AND I THINK THAT'S TRUE. AND I DIDN'T USED TO THINK THAT WAS TRUE.
DOUG FABRIZIO
WHAT DID YOU USED TO THINK?
ADEN ROSS
I THINK I USED TO THINK THAT WE WENT THERE TO BE ENLIGHTENED OR TO BE CHALLENGED OR TO BE...OR TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THE HISTORY OF THIS PRODUCTION OR THE HISTORY OF THEATER OR WHAT IS THE ... HOW WELL THIS IS DONE, PRODUCTION VALUES OR PAINT VALUES OR WHATEVER IT IS, AND NOW I REALLY THINK, MAYBE I'M JUST SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, THAT PEOPLE GO TO SAY, WHAT DOES THIS PAINTING, BALLET, SYMPHONY, OPERA, PLAY, WHATEVER ... WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH ME?
DOUG FABRIZIO
YEAH.
ADEN ROSS
WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH ME? AND THAT CAN BE, BOY, THAT REMINDS ME OF MY EX-HUSBAND OR THAT REMINDS ME OF MY GIRLFRIEND OR THOSE CHILDREN ARE ACTING JUST ... BUT WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS IN CONTEMPORARY ART IN UTAH, I THINK PEOPLE WANT TO THINK THE BEST OF THEMSELVES, RIGHT? SO I THINK THEY HAVE A HARD TIME IN A REALLY CONSERVATIVE STATE WHERE THEY ARE BEING TOLD, YOU ARE, WHATEVER, CHRISTIAN SCIENCE WOULD SAY GOD'S PERFECT CHILD. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MORMON VERSION OF THAT IS.
BUT WHERE YOU ARE BEING TOLD THAT ALL IS RIGHT, GOD IS TAKING CARE AND THERE ARE THE RULES AND EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU'RE BEING TOLD THAT AND THEN YOU'RE...AND YOU'RE BELIEVING THAT, AND THAT'S FINE. THAT'S FINE.
BUT THEN YOU GO TO AN ART EXHIBIT OR YOU GO TO SOMETHING ELSE THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, LIFE LOOKS A LOT LIKE ... IT IS FULL OF A LOT OF PAIN. THERE ARE A LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS. SO ON AND ON AND ON AND ON.
THEN I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT -- PEOPLE IN A REALLY CONSERVATIVE CLIMATE ARE NOT GOING TO RESPOND WELL OR SUPPORT FINANCIALLY OR ATTEND PHYSICALLY WORKS OF ART THAT CHALLENGE THEM IN THAT WAY.
NOW, I THINK NEW YORK ... I DON'T THINK THINGS ARE MUCH DIFFERENT IN NEW YORK. THEN IT'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF A...
DOUG FABRIZIO
SURE.
ADEN ROSS
I'M NOT DEMONIZING UTAH.
DOUG FABRIZIO
NO. SO "AMERIKA", YOUR LATEST PLAY, YOU WEREN'T SEEKING TO CONVERT PEOPLE, THEN?
ADEN ROSS
NO, NOT AT ALL. HUH-UH.
DOUG FABRIZIO
YOU WERE SEEKING TO GIVE THEM THEIR OWN KIND OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ABOUT THESE PARTICULAR QUESTIONS OF WAR AND POWER AND GREED.
ADEN ROSS
RIGHT. I HAD THE MOST AMAZING CARD FROM ONE OF MY FORMER NEIGHBORS WHERE I USED TO LIVE AND SHE SAID SHE'D GONE AND SHE SAID, ADEN, THIS PLAY HAS MADE ME RETHINK MY VALUES, RETHINK MY ETHICS, WHICH IS JUST A REMARKABLE THING FOR HER TO SAY. AND I KNOW SHE MEANS IT. AND I'M NOT SENDING OUT TO HAVE THAT HAPPEN. BUT SOMEWHERE IN THERE I THINK THAT PLAY IS RELEVANT TO MOST PEOPLE NOW IN 2006. I THINK IT IS. IF YOU LISTEN.
DOUG FABRIZIO
THE PLAY WAS, AS ... YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT THE CREATIVE PROCESS OF WRITING IT. YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW YOUR PLAYS AS YOU'RE WRITING THEM SORT OF TEACH YOU, YOU LEARN ABOUT YOURSELF.
ADEN ROSS
VERY MUCH.
DOUG FABRIZIO
ELEMENTS OF YOUR OWN CHARACTER. WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT WHEN YOU WROTE "AMERIKA"?
ADEN ROSS
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TWO ANSWERS, I THINK, TO THAT. ONE IS, I KNOW YOU KNOW YOUNG'S STATEMENT, HE'S ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE TO SAY THIS, THAT GOETHE DIDN'T FOUST, WROTE GOETHE. MOST PEOPLE SAY, WHAT WAS HE ON? BUT WHAT IT REALLY GETS DOWN TO IS THAT ... AND THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR ARTISTS TO LET THEM BE CHOSEN BY WHATEVER SUBJECTS ARE HAPPENING TO THEM.
SO WHAT YOU CONTINUE TO LEARN ABOUT YOURSELF IS, OH, I MUST HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THAT OR THAT MUST HAVE BEEN BOTHERING ME. BUT WHAT I LEARNED SPECIFICALLY FROM "AMERIKA" IS THAT ONE OF MY CHARACTERS PULLED ME UP SHORT IN MY BOOT STRAPS, WHICH IS SO GOOD, AND CALLED ME ON THE CARPET AND WHEN SHE SAID TO THE OTHER CHARACTER IN THE PLAY, SO WHAT DO YOU AND YOUR LIBERAL FRIENDS DO, SIGN ANOTHER PETITION TO MOVEON.ORG, ETCETERA, WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE, IS HER QUESTION. AND SHE'S PRETTY MUCH THE CONSERVATIVE VOICE, IF THERE IS SUCH A THING THAT PLAY. AND SHE REALLY MADE ME THINK. SO IT'S A PART OF MY AMERICANALITY SAYING, EXCUSE ME, ADEN, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ... FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE? AND THE ONLY ANSWER I COULD COME UP WITH WAS THAT I WRITE PLAYS.
DOUG FABRIZIO
WHAT ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THESE DAYS? WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT THESE DAYS?
ADEN ROSS
WHAT AM I WORRIED ABOUT?
DOUG FABRIZIO
I'M THINKING ABOUT THE WAR ON
TERROR, TECHNOLOGY THAT'S DISTRACTING EVERYBODY, I'M
WONDERING WHAT ABOUT ADEN THE ARTIST, WHAT DO YOU WORRY ABOUT THESE DAYS?
ADEN ROSS
IT ISN'T WHAT I'M GOING TO BE WRITING ABOUT. WHAT I'M WORRYING ABOUT ON WHAT I'M WRITING IS A DIFFERENT THING, BECAUSE THAT'S ON A MUCH MORE PERSONAL AND LESS GLOBAL VIEW.
DOUG FABRIZIO
RIGHT.
ADEN ROSS
WHAT I WORRY ABOUT THE MOST -- TO ME THE TERRORISM IS NOT OUT THERE, SO I'M ... EVERY TIME I HEAR THE WORD "WAR ON TERROR" I JUST FREEZE WAS BECAUSE THAT PHRASE HAS BEEN SO ... I THINK WE ARE BEING MADE TO FEEL FEARFUL, I THINK WE ARE ... SO THAT DOESN'T BOTHER ME IN THE SENSE THAT I'M NOT BUYING INTO THAT. BUT, I MEAN I SIMPLY REFUSE TO BE DEFINED IDIOCY.
BUT WHAT I WORRY ABOUT, BIGGIES, OVERPOPULATION, THAT KIND OF...OVERPOPULATION, GLOBAL WARMING, THE ENVIRONMENT. I DON'T HAVE CHILDREN AND NEVER WANTED TO HAVE CHILDREN, BUT I WORRY A LOT ABOUT WHAT WE ARE LEAVING TO THE NEXT GENERATION. YOU KNOW, THE AMERICAN INDIANS SAY THE SEVENTH GENERATION, LIVE SO THAT YOUR ACTIONS CAN STILL BE VIABLE IN THE SEVENTH GENERATION. AND OURS ARE HARDLY VIABLE TO THE NEXT GENERATION. SO THAT'S WHAT I WORRY ABOUT.
DOUG FABRIZIO
LESS THAN A MINUTE. LET ME SEE AND I CAN ASK YOU THIS, FINALLY. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HOW TERRORISM IS NOT OUT THERE.
ADEN ROSS
RIGHT.
DOUG FABRIZIO
YOU MEAN IT'S HERE?
ADEN ROSS
YES. I THINK THAT TERRORISM IS SOMETHING THAT IF WE ARE NOT IT, IF WE DID NOT LET OURSELVES BE MADE FEARFUL BY FORCES OUTSIDE OF US, THEN TERRORISM DOESN'T APPLY. AND I THINK THAT THE REAL TERRORISM COMES MORE FROM LIES AND MISCONCEPTIONS AND MISJUDGMENTS, AND I'M NOT EVEN SPECIFYING ANY PARTICULAR ADMINISTRATION, BUT AS SOON AS WE SAY, I'M GOING TO LET POLITICS, WHATEVER THEY ARE, OR THIS RELIGION, OR THIS FAMILY, OR THIS DYNAMIC MAKE ME AFRAID, THEN THAT TO ME IS TERRORISM.
DOUG FABRIZIO
ADEN ROSS, THANKS VERY MUCH.
ADEN ROSS
THANK YOU, DOUG.
DOUG FABRIZIO
IN OUR "SPEAK OUT" SEGMENT WE HAVE PAUL MERO FROM THE SUTHERLAND INSTITUTE. PAUL'S OPINION ABOUT WHAT CONSTITUTES A NATURAL FAMILY HAS DRAWN IN SOME ATTENTION LATELY AND GOTTEN HIM THINKING ABOUT…CIVILITY.
SPEAK OUT UTAH
PAUL MERO
IF ONE MORE SELF-RIGHTEOUS, KNOW-IT-ALL LECTURES ME ON CIVILITY, I AM GOING TO PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE. IF LOVE MEANS NEVER HAVING TO SAY YOU’RE SORRY, THEN CIVILITY MEANS I CAN HIT AN IDIOT WITH A TWO-BY-FOUR SIMPLY FOR DISAGREEING WITH ME.
I GET MORE HATE MAIL THAN TOM CRUISE AT A DEPRESSED MOTHERS OF AMERICA CONVENTION. AND FOR WHAT? BECAUSE I HAVE AN OPINION? OH, I SEE, IT’S BECAUSE I HAVE A STUPID OPINION. SO THE RULE IS THAT WE CAN BE UNCIVIL TO ANYONE WITH A STUPID OPINION. BUT, WAIT A MINUTE. WHAT’S A STUPID OPINION? OH, RIGHT, THAT WOULD BE MINE.
THE OLD SOVIET UNION USED TO HAVE A NOMENCLATURE COMMITTEE WHERE 300 OR SO BALD, BEEFY, HUMORLESS GUYS WOULD SIT AROUND AND DEFINE SOVIET EXISTENCE. MODERN AMERICANS CALL THIS EXERCISE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS. WORDS LIKE TOLERANCE, DIVERSITY, BIGOTRY, AND RACISM NOW HAVE OFFICIAL POLITICAL MEANINGS, AND WHEN YOUR DEFINITION DIFFERS FROM THE OFFICIAL VIEW THEN YOU BECOME A JUSTIFIABLE VICTIM OF INCIVILITY.
WE HAVE ARRIVED AT A POINT IN TIME WHEN A MERE OPINION, AN IDEA, A THOUGHT CAN BE LABELED AS UNCIVIL. A PERSON WHO BELIEVES THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS A CHOICE IS NOW MEAN-SPIRITED. A PERSON WHO BELIEVES THAT ABORTION IS THE KILLING OF INNOCENT LIFE IS NOW INSENSITIVE. A PERSON WHO BELIEVES THAT GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM, NOT THE SOLUTION, IS NOW NARROW-MINDED. AND A PERSON WHO BELIEVES THAT POVERTY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE IS NOW A RACIST.
WE NEED TO SET SOME NEW GROUND RULES FOR CIVIL BEHAVIOR. IN OUR SUTHERLAND INSTITUTE OFFICE WE HAVE A WALL-HANGING THAT READS, “CIVILITY HAS TWO PARTS: GENEROSITY, EVEN WHEN IT’S COSTLY, AND TRUST, EVEN WHEN THERE’S RISK.” THIS STANDARD HAS MANY GOOD AND PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS. NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS THAT INCUMBENT UPON ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC ARENA IS THE OBLIGATION TO FIND VALUE IN THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS.
LET ME BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU. CIVILITY IS A FUNCTION OF DISAGREEMENT. IT ONLY TRULY MATTERS WHEN WE DISAGREE.
WE CAN BE BOTH HONEST AND KIND WITH EACH OTHER. WE CAN BE BOTH FIRM AND PATIENT. WE CAN BE BOTH PRINCIPLED AND MAGNANIMOUS. WE CAN PUT POLITICAL BULLIES IN THEIR PLACE AND STILL FIND HUMILITY AS WE REFLECT ON OUR OWN PERSONAL SHORTCOMINGS. THIS IS CIVILITY.
ANOTHER WALL-HANGING IN OUR OFFICE READS, “CIVILITY REQUIRES THAT WE LISTEN TO OTHERS WITH KNOWLEDGE OF THE POSSIBILITY THAT THEY ARE RIGHT AND WE ARE WRONG.” THIS ONE IS PARTICULARLY SIGNIFICANT FOR THOSE US WHO ARE RARELY WRONG.
I’M PAUL MERO.
DOUG FABRIZIO
WELL, THAT'S "UTAH NOW" FOR THIS EVENING. THANKS FOR JOINING US.
REMEMBER, YOU CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION WITH AN E-MAIL, SEND US YOUR COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS AT UTAHNOW@KUED.ORG.
BE BACK NEXT FRIDAY WITH ANOTHER ADDITION OF "UTAH NOW." UNTIL THEN, I'M DOUG FABRIZIO.
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