Q: Would you please start by giving us a historical introduction to the African-American community of Utah.

Permanent settlement of African-Americans began in July of 1847 with the arrival of the handcart party of pioneers led by Brigham Young, the settlement thereafter of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in what became Utah in 1850. The African-American community by 1850 numbered approximately 65. The overwhelming majority of that number were slaves. Some members of the LDS church were white Southerners and brought their slaves to Utah after 1847 with them. A few African-Americans came because they were members of the LDS church and sought to join their fellow saints in building the new Zion in the West.

By 1870 there was a small fledgling African-American community primarily based in Salt Lake City, numbering about 118. They were primarily here because of their ties to the LDS church. The population is very similar to the general population within the LDS church in the 1870s and '80s. Most of the families were headed by two parents with large numbers of children. These were primary characteristics of black settlement in Utah prior to the 1890s.

Beginning in the later part of the 1880s, the military began to play a large role in bringing African-Americans into Utah. As early as 1886 the army decided to build a reservation on the Uinta Front. The buffalo soldiers for the Ninth Cavalry were sent into Utah to join two companies of white soldiers in building and establishing the military post on the Uinta frontier. There, soldiers or various companies of the buffalo soldiers were it for Duschene from 1886 until 1901, with one brief time out during the Spanish-American war when the soldiers went off to Cuba and the fort was manned by white soldiers.

There is an important element of the African-American history tied with rural Utah at that point. In 1896, some ten years after the buffalo soldiers were sent to Fort Duschene, the full regiment of the soldiers from the 24th infantry who had been dispersed of various fortifications of the West, such as Fort Huachucha, Arizona; Fort Beard, New Mexico. The full regiment was sent to Salt Lake City in the fall of 1896 as a reward of outstanding service over a 30-year period of the regiment. At that time, Salt Lake City's Fort Douglas was considered to be one of the better military posts in the West. The department of the army decided that these officers and soldiers would do such a favorable post.

Unfortunately, some Salt Lake residents were opposed to the stationing of black soldiers at Fort Douglas. It consisted of non-LDS as well as LDS components. There was concern that the location of the fort and the residences of some of the better citizens along Brigham Street, which is currently South Temple, would bring African-American soldiers into contact at certain times of the year with white residents. It was inferred in the local newspaper that somehow black soldiers were less controllable when under the influence of alcohol than white soldiers. Indeed, the incentive of Frank Cannon also became involved in attempting to persuade Washington officials not relocate the soldiers here.

In the fall of 1896 approximately 475 African-American soldiers came with their officers. All of them were white with one exception: Chaplain Allen Allensworth. They, along with some their family members and a group of camp followers, came into Salt Lake City and greatly impacted the small existing community that was here. It quadrupled the black population in Salt Lake County.

The soldiers were very happy; but they knew there was some question to as to whether or not if they should be stationed here. Under the urging of Chaplain Allensworth, a warning went out to the newspaper asking people who might tempt the soldiers not to come to the fort. They were prohibited to go off post without their uniform or take a secondary job for employment within the city. There were some constraints upon their mobility.

Nevertheless, the local African-American community were overjoyed with the arrival of these soldiers, because they were now able to more fully partake of a fuller social and cultural life. Social and cultural life not only impacted upon the black community, but certainly on the white community as well. The Twenty-fourth Infantry had an outstanding band. They had a large repertoire and the citizens of the local community frequently attended to band performances and concerts that were held on the fort, of which a good part is under University of Utah today.

The soldiers were happy to come into the midst of a small -- but nevertheless existing -- African-American community. By the 1890s there were approximately one thousand living in Salt Lake prior to the arrival of the Twenty-fourth Infantry. There were newspapers, fraternal organizations, and two churches: Trinity African Methodist Episcopal Church and Calvary Missionary Baptized Church. Those churches spoke to the secular as well as religious needs of the community. So there was an infusion of social and cultural as well as spiritual activities in the community.

In 1897, the annual emancipation celebration was greatly enhanced by the presence of the soldiers. They and the local African-American civilian population combined their resources to have a parade with floats, a beauty contest, with a dance, food, and refreshments. It was a glorious time -- a reflection of the small African-American community's ties with the larger African-American community. It was only approximately after three decades after the end of the Civil War that the national African-American community is expressed through the various activities in the settings of the rural emancipation or freedom was still very, very important and much on the minds of the people. Even those living in Salt Lake City and Ogden, Utah.

Q: Can you tell us the difference between the African-American settlements in Utah?

African-Americans, as I mentioned earlier, first settled in the Great Salt Lake Valley in 1847. Historically, the residential living patterns of African-Americans reflected that of the larger population. Of the African-Americans who came into the Great Salt Lake valley, many were slaves in 1848. Most of those slave residents initially settled in the Cottonwood/Holladay area. They were part of a group known in LDS history as the Mississippi Saints. In 1848-50 there were African-Americans, small in numbers, but a small slave community out approximately ten miles from the main settlement.

Generally settlements of African-Americans reflected their ties with these early families. Especially when the army came in some of the civilian population associated with the military lived on 1300 East here in Salt Lake City. Later some lived down on 500 East. Others later lived in Murray, also on Evergreen, which is a street that runs east and west off of 2000 East. It was on land that was homesteaded by African-American pioneers and their descendents as early as 1870. People went where they might acquire a piece of land.

As for settlement of African-Americans in Ogden, residential patterns were somewhat different. Great Salt Lake Valley was rural and didn't become an urban frontier community until approximately the 1890s. In contrast, Ogden was started in the 1870s. As far as African-Americans are concerned, their numbers did not really begin to grow to any extent until the second and third decades of the 20th century, with the expansion of the city as an important hub in the national transportation network. By that time, as the city was becoming urbanized, African-Americans were more confined to certain places, as opposed to being dispersed throughout the general land mass, as was the case in Salt Lake City.

It reflects more of black settlement in other parts of the country, the Midwest and the expanding urban ghettos terminology that we are familiar with. That leads to two types of settlements between the two populations in those cities. The African-American population in Ogden was much more restricted.

It's important to keep in mind that in both cities in the 20th century, restrictive covenants were used to keep African-Americans out as well as other ethnic groups -- even after those covenants were illegal in 1948 as a result of the United States Supreme Court decision. Someone recently shared with me that where they are living now, as late as 1958, there was a restrictive convenant operative. I found that somewhat surprising. In the case of Ogden and Salt Lake, one will find two very different residential living patterns, which continued for many years throughout the '20s, '30s, '40s, and '50s to exist.

Q: Can you tells us about LDS Church President Spencer Kimball's impact on African-Americans in Utah?

The June 1978 revelation by the first presidency by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was a remarkable point in the history of the LDS church, particularly for the African-American saints. Now, according to the first presidency, all worthy males could enjoy full rights and privileges within the LDS faith. Certainly those African-Americans who had maintained their affiliation in the more than 100 years prior to that could now really see their prayers answered.

One woman in particular that I've done some historical work on is Janie Elizabeth Manning-James. As a saint, she believed that she had lived a life which should have entitled her to a place in the Celestial Kingdom. I believe that her soul was certainly put at rest. Particularly in the year following the revelation, her temple work was completed by a group of special friends.

At the time, many, or some people, or at least I thought that the impact of the revelation would be most immediate for African-American saints. I also thought that it would have an impact in terms of the future race relations in the state of Utah, at least in where it pertained to African-Americans. I thought much of the prejudice that was demonstrated against African-Americans was in part shaped by this religious practice which prohibited full participation, in that it impacted secular as well as spiritual areas.

Coupled with the revelation and the 20 years since the revelation the church has embarked on an enhanced and then expanded mission of being a universal church. The number of people of color coming into the church has grown rapidly, particularly in Latin and South American nations, as well as the Far East and even sub-Saharan Africa. I think full acceptance has led to a lessening of barriers in terms of interaction and the larger white LDS community.

Along the Wasatch Front -- Weber, Davis, Salt Lake, and Utah Counties -- there is a lot greater familiarity and possibility for interaction between whites and blacks was certainly the case prior to the revelation. I think people are more open to it. I think that will continue to lessen the tensions that I think existed prior to the 1978 revelation.

All of which I think has made Salt Lake, Ogden, and the Wasatch Front much more a place in which African-Americans would consider relocating. I know that having resided here over the last 25 years, I can see certain changes in the minds of many individuals in terms of the openness and willingness to interact in not just a superficial manner. I think that lays the possibilities for changes in the future. We have a long way to go, but there are places which I didn't think we would have dared to go 20 or 30 years ago.

Q: Describe what Salt Lake City was like in 1963, when you first came to it.

I came to Salt Lake City, Utah in January of 1963. I came to attend the University of Utah, where I had been offered and accepted an athletic scholarship. I was very impressed with the fact that the athletic coaches and the professors with whom I would visit emphasized the possibility of my graduating, and that was very important.

I had visited other schools where the emphasis was how fast you ran to 50. That was before people were interested in the 40-yard times and how high could you leap. That, and coupled with the fact that the Utah coaching staff was able to present a brief overview of the campus to my parents in their living room through a projector and film, influenced my decision. With the athletic schedule, I would have a chance to do things and visit places that I never thought of -- New York City, plus they were going to play in Berkley, California my senior year. Important individuals were Charles Chatfield, who recruited me, along with Coach Raynegle.

I came to Salt Lake City with some apprehension. I didn't know anything about the Mormon church in any detail, I knew there was something about African-Americans that didn't fit in with church acceptance. But I came here because I knew that I was going to be here on a temporary basis. I had a wonderful opportunity. I had a great experience as an undergraduate student. I completed my degree, I played on wonderful football teams, and built life-long personal friendships. I never at any time thought I would be here beyond the date of graduation.

So, in December 1965, degree requirement having been completed, I left Salt Lake City, Utah, never to return other than the possible attending a ball game for a weekend. Eight years later I found myself driving across I-80 and embarking upon a mission to complete a doctoral program and teach courses in African-American History in the Department of History within the Ethnic Studies program. I thought I would be here 5 to 6 years and then be out.

In 1981, after having commuted back-and-forth for a couple of years, I made a decision that this was a good place for me personally, professionally, and that this was really the place.

I think that was possible because Salt Lake City, Utah is a very different place in 1981 from what I knew in the 1960s, keeping in mind that as an undergraduate student, I was in a position of privilege. I was an athlete. I lived in the residence halls. I had friendships with some members of the larger African-American community that were important, but I didn't live here, it wasn't home for me. So I never thought of it as home.

One of the reasons that I could never think of it as home, is that over the two years that I was an undergraduate student I came to learn more about prohibitions against African-Americans, not only in terms of religion, but how that impacted secular life as well. Certainly I always envisioned returning back to San Francisco, where I am originally from. I never once considered living here beyond the school year.

Q: Can you tell us your opinion on the impact of professional sports in Utah?

I think that particularly since the late 1950s and early '60s, the African-American athletes at the collegiate as well as the professional level have had a subtle impact on a part of a number of Utah residents -- in terms of their familiarity and later acceptance of African-Americans, and part as recognition of the exploits that some of these athletes have had on the field and courts.

I think the success that of the athletic and football teams are respected in their communities, whether it's Utah State up in Logan; Weber State in Ogden; or even Southern Utah University in Cedar City; Dixie College in St. George; and College of Eastern Utah, not to mention the University of Utah. I think often that has been the vehicle by which non-African-Americans became familiar with African-Americans as far as their performance on the athletic fields. I think clearly where you see this is in the professional ranks -- with the American Basketball Association and the Utah Starzz that were later succeeded by the NBA's Utah Jazz.

In our community, not only are the professional athletes, but even those on the collegiate level, athletes are performers and in some instances they are celebrities. I think that is a reflection of what is taking place nationally. I was in Los Angeles this weekend and, surprisingly, saw a young fellow at the Simon Wesenthal Museum of Intolerance with a Jazz jersey on featuring Karl Malone's number. And so I think that athletics has been a wonderful vehicle which has made some African-Americans more acceptable. So I see that as an important step.

But we need to go much further beyond that in terms of personal interactions day-to-day across racial ethnic lines. But I think that the presence of individuals such as Ron Boone and some of the others who have been wonderful bridges for better race relationships.

Occasionally, we have seen where an athlete in their post-athletic career has gone on to achieve recognition and I think that casts African-American athletes in somewhat of a different dimension. I am thinking of Judge Tyrone Medley, who was an outstanding basketball player and, upon completing his collegiate eligibility, attended law school, graduated, and is now a member of the Third District Court. Also, law enforcement officers like Joe Tawver, who also was a student athlete, a member of the University of Utah football team, is now a police officer in Murray and a very well respected member of the LDS community.

Q: Describe the diversity within Utah's African-American community.

The African community has never been monolithic. It is not a monolithic community nationally, nor has it a monolithic community here locally. You have people attending different churches, living in different areas, and interacting in selective ways when they choose to do so. I think that in recent years, the relocation to Salt Lake City and Ogden, or to Utah in general by African-American professionals is starting to have an impact in terms of having a wider array of socio-economic stratification. This is especially true when you exclude the professional athletes because their income is off the scale.

I think the private sector, national companies and local companies have realized the value of diverse work forces and respect the values and contributions that diverse people bring to leadership. Now we are seeing African-Americans in positions of leadership within their respective companies, and some of that carries over to civic responsibilities as well, which far surpasses anything that I would have imagined prior to 25 or 30 years ago. Now I think that is good.

The Utah African-American community still comprises less than one percent of the total population. However, the African-American community is a more diverse community not only in terms of its variety of religious beliefs and backgrounds, but also in terms of the socio-economic levels. There has emerged, and continues to be, an increased African-American professional class. This is largely the result of the private sector as well as the institutions of higher education employing African-Americans and other diverse people, because of what they view are the positive things that they bring to the respective work communities. I think that this has been particularly important in bringing people from a variety of backgrounds into interaction with one another, which you certainly would have not imagined 35 or 40 years ago.

Q: How do you think Salt Lake City's work to host the 2002 Winter Olympics has rasied awareness about diversity in the state?

I think that the efforts to acquire the Olympics compelled Utah to show Olympic leaders that diversity is a priority because of the diversity that exists within the various nations who compete in the Olympic process. Now where that priority lies, I have no idea. But I do know that our bid was enhanced, certainly not hindered, by the participation of some individuals who make up racial and ethnic diversity.

I think that that is really a reflection of the fact that we are a state whose interests are tied not only to the national community but to the international community. This means that we can no longer ignore the reality of diversity in life and embrace that in a manner that we hope will be embraced by others. I think that this will hopefully be something that we can build upon as a state. The future will tell.