Q: How have you felt about being in Salt Lake all of your life? How has your perception or your image of it changed over the years?

I've really not known another home. So Salt Lake is my home. My children have tried to get me to come to California to live, but I don't think I would like that fast pace. Utah has been OK for me, and I know my way around. As I get older I'm more content to be in the surroundings that I enjoy, and know where I'm going and coming.

Q: Tell me about your father's job.

When I grew up there were five children in our family and we were a quite close knit family. We didn't have too much other outside activities, except for family picnics. I grew up during the Depression time and jobs for black men at that time, was not very good at all. We went through bad stages and good stages. It depended upon the employment my father could have at that time. We didn't have a lot of luxuries, but we had the unity of the family life together, which I enjoyed.

Q: Where did your father work?

My dad worked at various places. Like I said before it was easy for a black man to get good jobs at the time. He was also porter out at the airport. That was the best job he had for awhile, he had, to shine shoes for different periods of our growing up and things like that or, being a porter and cleaning and different places like that. He didn't have a good steady job of an income. Then he became a porter out at the airport, and that was the most steady job he had. He worked there til he had to retire. Life at that time coming up during the Depression wasn't as easy as the children have nowadays in the home where money is more a ready accessible than during my time of growing up.

Tell us about your husband's employment.

Well my husband was born in Idaho. So, when he came here he was a student, which he came and visited and went back again and when he came here he worked at the arms plant and then he went into service. When he came back he became a chef on the railroad. The life with my children growing up was him running on the railroad. That meant that sometimes he was out as long as seven days at a time, then he would be in seven days, but he worked on the railroad right up until the time of his death.

Q: How did he like working on the railroad? Did he ever tell you any interesting stories of what it was like?

Well it was kind of hard especially with our last child. In fact, we had, this is not a very good thing to say over television, but we had to induce labor so we would catch him in town, otherwise he was running on that seven day thing and he was going to St. Louis and he would be out during the time that my youngest son was to be born. That was a draw back.

It seemed whenever I needed him the most he was out, but that's what made me so independent. I had to be. I couldn't wait seven days sometimes to make a decision, so I had to make decisions when he was out sometimes. The quality time while he was in town, that's what made the difference with the children. The time he was able to give them when he was in town, compared to the time he was out of town.

Q: In an interview you did about 15 years ago, you discussed the transition from being called "Negro" to "Black," and now African-American. Can you talk a little bit about that?

You know that was kind of hard for me to begin with. I still to this day do not like the name of black. To me it denotes a color and when we were coming up that was a derogatory remark made to us and it was kind of hard for me to accept being called black. I can recall years ago with my little grand daughter coming up and she'd say she was black and beautiful, and I'd say "No Tiffany you're brown and beautiful." She'd say, "No honey I'm black and beautiful," because that's what her mother taught her at the time. That was when black was so popular and now Afro-American and I still don't relate to that, because I know the Africans do not relate to us as being called that. I'm not an African as far as coming from Africa, but it is something they are using now, so I go along with it. Negro to me was not a bad name.

Q: Let's talk a little bit about Salt Air and your experiences working there with your dad.

My dad worked one time going out to Salt Air and so as children we used to enjoy riding out on the train with him and at that time there was a lot of prejudice. So, we could ride out with him, we would just play around. We were not allowed to go out in the water, because at that time they didn't allow blacks into the swimming pool and out into the Salt Air. Nor could we partake of anything out in the pavilions or anything like that, because blacks were just not allowed.

The same way at Lagoon. You couldn't do that and the same way with the hotels. The restaurants at that time when I was growing up, the barrier had not been broken down, you were just not allowed to go to those places.

Q: You said something about "that was just the way it was."

Well yes, we didn't question as children, because that's the way it was. We never had the opportunity of doing it. You know sometimes, you don't miss what you don't have and so we compensated with other things. We realized that it wasn't right, but no one pursued the fact until we came to the next generation. My children were at that time when lots of this was broken down, but at that time we couldn't go in the swimming pools at the parks and things like that. We knew we couldn't, so we didn't fight against that barrier.

Q: Tell us about having to take your kids out skating at midnight.

That was a bad time when my two older children were coming up for recreation. If they wanted to go roller skating in the rinks they had to go after hours. That meant parents were out on the street taking their children, because of course the children could not go themselves at that time of night and it had to be after hours. So, they were skating from 10-12 or 11-1, either one of those times. So it was a bad time, because it was a time when the children needed the recreation and yet they wouldn't able to go during regular times and so it made it quite hard.

I think we as parents were willing to let our children have the opportunity, but it was an inconvenient thing, because many of the women didn't drive. I for myself didn't drive when my older two were young, so that was an inconvenience there. I had to be sure I had transportation and my husband was out of town and that meant I had to get transportation from someone else. There was a lot of inconvenience to it, but yet it was for the benefit for the children so we done it.

Q: Tell us some stories about your children growing.

My two older children went to Franklin School, that's where they started. Then they had to transfer because they tore down the regular Franklin School. My daughter had a very bad scene with the transition. She was a very forward little girl, liked to be in everything and take part in things and she is still that way as she gets older. But it was hard for her because when she transferred schools she couldn't take the name calling and things at school, so we transferred her back.

My older son stayed in that school for the year, but we eventually transferred him back over to Franklin. It was hard. They didn't have the opportunities and yet my daughter grew up to speak in the Tabernacle at graduation. She was one of the first blacks to have that opportunity. She got the award for the Daughters of the American Revolution or something that was high up and her being black she is the one that won the authority for that.

So, they had different experiences in their lives, but it depended a lot on the children, because my daughter was so much more forward than my son was and she just made her way. But it was hard because they had to endure name calling. They had to be ostracized from this and that and the other, but lots of the barriers were broken down around that time, so it helped them out a lot. So, of course when my younger son went to school, there wasn't the problem I experienced and then that my older children experiences even less. When he came a long it was less still, because there was thirteen years difference between them and him, so it made a difference.

Q: How did you teach your children to deal with the name-calling?

I taught my children how to deal with things like this because I taught them that they were just as good anyone else. What makes the person is the person themselves. My children were raised in church so they knew the value of who they were and what they were and I always tried to tell them that you can talk it out and make things right through talking. It was OK, but if you didn't talk it out..(stops mid-sentence). I went to parents right here on my own street. We've had parents here where their children were calling them names and we went to the parents and it didn't stop and so then I allowed my children to take other measures because they had the right to walk down the street as much as anyone else and not have to hear that name everytime they turned. It was hard for them. I tried to teach them non-violence, but it isn't always possible, but I tried to teach them the value of who they are and what they are and be proud of it.

Q: What role has the church played in your life and in the community of African-Americans here?

I think for African-Americans as a general rule a church plays a big part. I know churches played a big part in my life. I was raised, as I said before, in the church and I have still stayed in the church. In fact, I've worked in church all my life. I've been a very active person and as I said at the present time I'm an ordained elder in our church and I'm quite proud of that fact, not proud of the fact that I think I'm better than everyone else, but that I could do it and God has given me the opportunity to really do it and to act. Because I figure that everything comes from God. Church plays a big part in my life.

Q: Lets now go back to your childhood. There was a story that you told about dances and about how you felt during a dance?

When I was coming up in school, it was so much different than what they are now. I like to see the mixture of the races. I have a mixture of races in my own family now, but still when I was coming up in school, you were always left to the last to be chosen. But then as a rule you ended up dancing with another girl, because there was just not the mixture at all, you just didn't have that in school when I was coming up. So, you had to excel. My nature was quite like my daughters. If anyone else could do it I could do it too. So, I excelled and I graduated with honors from West High, so I was proud of that also. It's just been my nature. If anyone else could do it, then if I applied myself I could do it too.

Q: When you worked for Social Services, what was that like? How was it on the job? Were you comfortable there?

Yes, when it came to the job situation I worked my last eighteen years at Social Services and I was very comfortable in my job. I didn't feel any prejudice there. I worked very well with the people and ended up being one of the older ones, which they would respect me. When they come to tell a joke they would say, "Excuse me, Florence" Then they would tell their joke or not tell it if I was there or go somewhere else to tell it if it was a little out of color. I was respected because I was one of the older ones. They would come to me for questions and answers of lots of things. You know personal lives and things like that. So, I enjoyed my years of working for Social Services. You know as a job can go it was OK.

Q: Your relatives were the Millcreek Mormons, would you want to say anything about that or is that not applicable?

Well, my relatives, I'm a Seventh Day Adventist by faith and I do have relatives that are of the Mormon religion. I have relatives that are Baptist and of different other faiths. I make it a point of not condemning anyone's religion. I believe if you believe what you believe as strong as you believe it, that's your right. I do have relatives that are L.D.S., Mormons, and so, but that's their belief, so I respect them for it.

Q: Over the years, what has been your fondest memory, if you could bottle the best experience of your life what would it be?

That would be a little hard, to bottle my fondest memories. You know you have so many different memories of so many different things and different times in your life. I've been widow for quite so many years now. The older I get the harder it gets for me, but still I do have my son and his family here with me and my grand daughter and her family are here, so I get a lot of help from them. But I enjoy being active.

I'm active in the community still as much as I can be. I'm not as active as I used to be. I worked in the NAACP for fifteen years as secretary and I intend to retire this year. Then I also have been with the YWCA and I've worked in various things. I've got awards for different things. To me it's just part... I like to do things. I like to work up to my potential as much as I can. I'm limited now, but I did enjoy it when I did.

I like to travel and I have traveled to different cities and different countries. I've been in Mexico and Hawaii and all around like that, so I've enjoyed my life. I'm just thankful that God has been able to let me do it and be able to continue to do as much as I do.

Q: Tell me about what you worked on with the NAACP, were there some projects that you worked with?

The various things I've done through NAACP have been very rewarding to me. I've worked on their conferences. Even when they went to protest for different things, I don't believe in protesting as an individual myself, but I've always been in the background and helped whenever I can. I've worked on so many, many different projects with their banquets and things like that. I think it is a very worthy organization and I'm proud to be a part of it.

Q: You have your great-grandchildren here in Utah. What do you see for the future for the kids?

Sometimes I wonder about the future of the children. You know some things are so much better for them and then I see so many things that could be a downfall for them. It's just fulfilling of time. I can see now where prejudice has come a long ways of overcoming prejudice, but I can still see a long ways for them to go. I try to teach my children. I taught them and tried to teach the grandchildren it is all up to them. It is up to them, it's up to them what they do and how they do it and how far they can go.

You can build a child's ego so far, and then lots of it has to depend upon them. But if they are taught to work to their potential, not expect something to be given to them, they will go much further in life. I've seen my own children, I've seen them progress. But they have to do it on their own to a certain extent and they have to want to do it before they can accomplish anything and I try to encourage them as much as I can. I can see much more for the future for them now then what it would have been a few years ago.

Q: Tell us about now.

My life now is slowed down an awful lot from what it used to be, because I've always been very active. But right now and a few years prior to this I did a lot of ceramics. I enjoy doing them, it's a challenge to me. I've got an awful lot in my home, but it's me and I enjoy it. Other people may not like it as well as I do, to see all of this around, but I kind of like it because it's mine. I think my children respect me for what I'm doing. They're proud of what I'm doing and they've encouraged me to do it. In fact, they wanted to buy me a kiln, but I do enough as it is and I've got enough around, so I don't need that opportunity, but I'd enjoy doing anything with my hands.

I'm limited now for going outside and doing a lot of work in my yard, which my children at the present time are helping me do that, but I do enjoy doing my ceramics. It's peace of mind for me, it can calm me in the evenings. If I get upset I can take it out on the ceramics and work with them for awhile, so I enjoy doing it very much. I do have a lot of them around and I'm rather proud of some of them that I have done. Just one of my particular hobbies that I like to do.